# I watched the movie "Cats" so you don't have to **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 21, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534 "2022-06-21T02:25:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/41 "2022-06-23T21:56:43Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > And it’s very, very seldom that you’ll see a stage show of Cats get Mr. Misoffolees’ gender right (the one exception I know of is when it was done by an all-girls high school). > > Not sure what you’re getting at. Is the character not male? - I’ve seen claims the character is supposed to be female despite the name. [However…](https://poets.org/poem/mr-mistoffelees) > You ought to know Mr. Mistoffelees! > The Original Conjuring Cat— > (There can be no doubt about that). > Please listen to me and don’t scoff. All **his** > Inventions are off **his** own bat. > There’s no such Cat in the metropolis; > **He** holds all the patent monopolies > For performing surprising illusions > And creating eccentric confusions. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/42 "2022-06-23T22:03:35Z")
He is about as male as Mrs Chippy was female. But it’s a good point that the director would have to read and actually comprehend the poem to grok the “subtle” clues. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/43 "2022-06-23T22:55:17Z")
Who’s Mrs Chippy, and can you actually clarify what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/44 "2022-06-23T22:55:25Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’ve seen claims the character is supposed to be female despite the name. > [However…](https://poets.org/poem/mr-mistoffelees) Read further: > [@](#): > > And not long ago this phenomenal Cat > Produced _seven kittens_ right out of a hat! So what we have here is a cat, whose human family called “Mister” and “him”, who had kittens. What’s the likeliest explanation, here? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/45 "2022-06-23T23:01:28Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Who’s Mrs Chippy, and can you actually clarify what you’re saying? Mrs Chippy was an adorable ship’s cat taken on Shackleton’s ill-fated Trans-Antarctic Expedition. One month into the voyage, it was discovered that Mrs Chippy was actually a male. However, by then the name had stuck. As for what I am saying about the poem, see @Chronos 's post ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/46 "2022-06-23T23:05:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > I’ve seen claims the character is supposed to be female despite the name. > > [However…](https://poets.org/poem/mr-mistoffelees) > > Read further: > > > [@](#): > > > > And not long ago this phenomenal Cat > > Produced _seven kittens_ right out of a hat! > > So what we have here is a cat, whose human family called “Mister” and “him”, who had kittens. What’s the likeliest explanation, here? - Human magicians produce rabbits out of a hat without a trace of rabbit in their genetic makeup. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/47 "2022-06-23T23:08:18Z")
I think you could make a pretty convincing argument that the “joke” of the original TS Eliot poem is that “Mr Mistoffelees” is actually a girl cat. That doesn’t mean that that’s also automatically true of the musical, nor that a production which doesn’t lean into that joke isn’t doing it “right”. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/48 "2022-06-23T23:10:34Z")
I rented it once, back when that was a thing. I could only watch about ten minutes. I grew up with the book, am still fond of it, even though I’m a dog person. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/49 "2022-06-24T01:04:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Human magicians produce rabbits out of a hat without a trace of rabbit in their genetic makeup. Eliot seems to be making a joke there that Mr. Mistofolees was, to the amazement of its owners, female. It’s a series of funny poems about cats; the idea the cat is a magician is a play on the surprise she had in store. That’s something that happens, since it’s not obvious without a vet’s examination if a cat is male or female. Of course, this joke would not have made sense in the musical. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/50 "2022-06-24T01:24:00Z")
is happens in real life … Garfield was a huge ball of orange fur and PetSmart said she was male on adoption day so we never checked …12 weeks later when it was time to get fixed the vet informed us it was “ms. Garfield” and going to be about 15$ more for the operation ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/51 "2022-06-24T03:17:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Eliot seems to be making a joke there that Mr. Mistofolees was, to the amazement of its owners, female. It’s a series of funny poems about cats; the idea the cat is a magician is a play on the surprise she had in store. That’s something that happens, since it’s not obvious without a vet’s examination if a cat is male or female. > > Of course, this joke would not have made sense in the musical. I’ve always taken it that he knocked up another cat in the house. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/52 "2022-06-24T03:36:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > it’s not obvious without a vet’s examination if a cat is male or female. I don’t have much trouble once a cat is at least a few months old, but I’ve been dealing with them my whole life. I am not a veterinary professional, just a very experienced cat servant. I do know of a couple of mixups I was not guilty of: When I was in single-digit age range, my parents were surprised to discover that one of the toughest toms we had (a very fluffy longhair) was pregnant. Atilla became Matilda very quickly. A friend of mine adopted a cat believed to be female (I didn’t actually have opportunity to meet this cat), and was informed by the vet who was planning to spay the cat that HE was already neutered. Poor kitty, trip to the evil doctor and a shaved tummy for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/53 "2022-06-24T13:11:53Z")
And all of Mx. Mistoffelees’ “magic tricks” are the sort of things that real cats do regularly-- Sounding like they’re in another room when you can see them right there, or hiding things in the unlikeliest places, or whatnot. Anyone familiar with cats would be nodding along with all of that (as, for that matter, with all of the cats of the other poems). So we’re clearly meant to expect that es “trick” of producing kittens was also done in the usual cat way. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/54 "2022-06-24T13:45:51Z")
I wish MST3K could get permission to give this, Battlefield Earth, and Highlander 2 the full treatment. Skits, jokes, the whole thing. They deserve it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/55 "2022-06-24T14:07:58Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I wish MST3K could get permission to give this, Battlefield Earth, and Highlander 2 the full treatment. Skits, jokes, the whole thing. They deserve it. - > **[Transformative use](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformative_use)** > > In United States copyright law, transformative use or transformation is a type of fair use that builds on a copyrighted work in a different manner or for a different purpose from the original, and thus does not infringe its holder's copyright. Transformation is an important issue in deciding whether a use meets the first factor of the fair-use test, and is generally critical for determining whether a use is in fact fair, although no one factor is dispositive. > Transformativeness is a characteri... WAG-might not apply as viewers may be tuning in to watch the movie as well as the savaging. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/56 "2022-06-24T14:23:43Z")
Parody is also explicitly a factor in determining fair use. But, like most of copyright law, the standards are vague, and left to be determined by courts. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d07c76/32.png) [@Hermione1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione1)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/57 "2022-06-24T14:56:51Z")
Rifftrax is planning a riff for Kickstarter donators. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/58 "2022-06-25T00:12:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > WAG-might not apply as viewers may be tuning in to watch the movie as well as the savaging. MST was limited by copyright law in what films they could show. A lot of their films were public domain, or had lapsed copyrights, but for a long time, you couldn’t get any of the Gamera episodes on VHS or in reruns, because Sandy Frank had gotten wind of how they’d made fun of him on the show, and refused to renew the rights to the movies. (BTW, ever wonder what Sandy Frank looked like? [Here he is!](https://gamera.fandom.com/wiki/Sandy_Frank?file=Sandy_Frank.jpg)) Sandy Frank Productions eventually sold their catalog to Shout! Factory, so the Gamera episodes are available again. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/59 "2022-06-25T00:17:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > (BTW, ever wonder what Sandy Frank looked like? [Here he is!](https://gamera.fandom.com/wiki/Sandy_Frank?file=Sandy_Frank.jpg)) I’ll see your Sandy Frank and raise you [Jam Handy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_Handy#/media/File:Jam_Handy_Entrevista_(GuiaMartinez).png). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534/60 "2022-06-25T00:41:09Z")
“Handy’s suits did not have pockets, as he thought they were a waste of time.” Huh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-watched-the-movie-cats-so-you-dont-have-to/966534.md?page=4)