# I waterboard! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894 "2007-12-22T02:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![city\_zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a87d85/32.png) [@city\_zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/city_zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/461 "2008-01-15T18:06:23Z")
Well isn’t a form a murder to drown someone? If so, then “pretend” drowning someone counts as torture. I mean, would you like to have a cloth put over your face, and then have water poured over it until you couldn’t breathe? ---
**Author:** ![doubting\_t](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@doubting\_t](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doubting_t)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/462 "2008-01-24T15:07:03Z")
What I find most interesting is those people who argue strenuously that waterboarding is torture and then say that there is no problem in doing such a thing to our own troops in training. Either it is or it is not torture. And if it is torture then it shouldn’t be done to our own. ---
**Author:** ![StaceyJW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@StaceyJW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StaceyJW)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/463 "2008-01-27T06:49:12Z")
WOW- Thank you SO MUCH for writing about your experiment. You opened my eyes, and I am grateful. I admit that I was part of the ignorant crowd that did not understand WHY waterboarding was torture. I am not a cruel person, I just didn’t understand how it actually worked, why it was so terrrible, or why it mattered if it was used on an “enemy”. No one explained how it felt like you did- it was chilling and communicated the essence of terror. When people generally relate torture with prolonged pain, an action that leaves no permanent physical damage seems less threatening. I guess most people have a limited idea of what constitutes torture; they need to understand that there ARE worse things than physical pain, no matter how excruciating! After hearing people say that taking pics of prisioners in sexually suggestive poses, or stripping them in front of the opposite sex, was torture, I thought that maybe we had collectively lost the meaning of torture- those things are rude and ignorant, but not torture. I guess it is easier to pass off “waterboarding” (great euphamism) as no big deal when it is grouped with the above actions. And you are right to say that it dehumanizes the torturer AND the victim. Our world is less human just knowing that this practice is being done to people. We have to stop this- torture is a disgrace regardless of who does it. Again, thank you for posting this. Everyone should have to read it. Stacey If we (the USA) can’t lead by example, how can we expect the world to respect us? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/464 "2008-01-27T07:35:09Z")
May I join **fisha** in welcoming you to the Dope. You’ve shown that you have a lot to offer, and I, for one, would be glad to see you sign up for a year and stick around. One nitpick/clarification: [QUOTE=Brown Eyed Girl] Without ignoring the keen insight of the **Scylla** ’s OP, the ones that had the most profound effect on me were **margin** ’s initial and followup posts in which he represents the ideal interrogator’s perspective. You, sir, have my utmost admiration and appreciation for not only serving, but representing this nation with dignity and honor that outshines the muddied values and vindictiveness of many armchair warriors. Your sentiment encouraged me to bid goodbye to a wee bit of cynicism that has become an uncomfortable burden these days. Thank you for giving me hope that there’s still a chance for humanity to prevail. [/QUOTE] **margin** is a she, not a he. Also an asset. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/465 "2008-01-27T14:05:30Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] One nitpick/clarification: **margin** is a she, not a he. Also an asset. [/QUOTE] Thank you for the correction. My apologies to **margin**. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/466 "2008-01-27T14:11:47Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] May I join **fisha** in welcoming you to the Dope. You’ve shown that you have a lot to offer, and I, for one, would be glad to see you sign up for a year and stick around. [/QUOTE] Oh! I just realized this was directed at me. :smack: Thank you both ( **fisha** too!) for the compliment. I’m working on fitting it into my budget. It certainly seems to be worth the investment. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/467 "2008-01-28T08:22:24Z")
[QUOTE=Brown Eyed Girl] Oh! I just realized this was directed at me. :smack: [/quote] No :smack: is called for, except perhaps one for me. Reviewing my post, I realized that I [del]could[/del] should have been a great deal more clear about that. > [@](#): > > Thank you both ( **fisha** too!) for the compliment. I’m working on fitting it into my budget. It certainly seems to be worth the investment. 🙂 As to that, I feel a bit presumptuous directing people to a benny that I’ve not sponsored, but [why don’t you take a gander over here anyway?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415370&page=1&pp=50) ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/468 "2008-07-02T15:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] No :smack: is called for, except perhaps one for me. Reviewing my post, I realized that I [del]could[/del] should have been a great deal more clear about that. As to that, I feel a bit presumptuous directing people to a benny that I’ve not sponsored, but [why don’t you take a gander over here anyway?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415370&page=1&pp=50) [/QUOTE] Resurrecting this thread to show how [ahead of the curve the Dope is.](http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808?printable=true¤tPage=all) ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/469 "2008-07-02T18:06:15Z")
Damn, **AT**! I ran a search for this thread to resurrect for the same reason … Could have just opened GD, I guess. **Scylla** ’s account I found much more illuminating than Hitchens’, I have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/470 "2008-07-04T11:14:28Z")
I’m glad you did resurrect it. I missed it the first time around … not searching for torture stories around Christmas I guess. My reaction was similar to what some other Dopers have mentioned. I knew water boarding was bad, and I already opposed it, but now I feel I actually understand it. I also appreciate Scylla’s intellectual honesty in posting a result that probably went against his original idea. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/471 "2008-07-10T22:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] Damn, **AT**! I ran a search for this thread to resurrect for the same reason … Could have just opened GD, I guess. **Scylla** ’s account I found much more illuminating than Hitchens’, I have to say. [/QUOTE] I second that. [Here is the video](http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/video/2008/hitchens_video200808) of the (very short) session along with Hitchen’s recollection of it. Greg: Scylla is the man. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/472 "2008-07-15T23:44:24Z")
> [@Hitchens article](#): > > it was difficult for me to completely forget the clause in the contract of indemnification that I had signed. This document (written by one who knew) stated revealingly: > > \<\<“Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.\>\> Doesn’t this mean that it qualifies as torture under the Yoo test? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/473 "2008-07-16T00:33:58Z")
Back when this came out I got about ten different requests for interviews from a bunch of journalists, including the Wall Street Journal. At first I was flattered, then I got a little miffed. Why did they want to write about what I just wrote about? Then it was was explained to me that I actually was the story (being fool enough to do it.) I got nervous about the whole thing. IRL I’m a low-key responsible sort, and really didn’t want to call any attention to my questionable judgement. Better Hitchens than me. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/474 "2008-07-16T00:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] Better Hitchens than me. [/QUOTE] You’re more credible than Hitchens. ---
**Author:** ![AdvocatusDiaboli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@AdvocatusDiaboli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdvocatusDiaboli)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/475 "2009-04-29T01:18:43Z")
As the damage done by this coercion method is psychological in a greater degree than physical, do you think it possible for someone whom is ready to accept death to be unaffected? What I am really curious about is what was gained by using these methods upon dozens of times after their thresholds have been met. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/476 "2009-04-29T01:35:34Z")
Unholy necromancers must be burned at the stake ! ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/477 "2009-04-29T01:58:26Z")
> [@AdvocatusDiaboli](#): > > As the damage done by this coercion method is psychological in a greater degree than physical, do you think it possible for someone whom is ready to accept death to be unaffected? > What I am really curious about is what was gained by using these methods upon dozens of times after their thresholds have been met. I imagine that **Scylla** could answer this much better than me but my guess is that it is more than just “psychological”…I think it is provokes a physiological reflex. So, even if you psychologically accept death, I don’t think that would necessarily change your reaction to the sensation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/478 "2009-04-29T02:17:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Unholy necromancers must be burned at the stake ! In other words, zombifying old threads is frowned upon. Starting a new thread and linking to the old one will be better received. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/479 "2009-04-29T03:00:07Z")
As noted, we prefer that older threads that have lapsed for lengthy periods not be re-opened. It encourages responses to, (or attacks upon), posters who are no longer present or rekindles old fights. The thread is closed without prejudice and any new thread may be opened with links to either the OP or any particular post within this thread. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/480 "2009-05-01T03:17:51Z")
Given the interest that this thread has generatd over many months, we have decided to re-open it for continuing commentary. Please note: **PAY ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF THE POST TO WHICH YOU ARE REPLYING!** The poster may no longer be an active participant on the SDMB. The poster may have reconsidered his or her views and no longer hold the views expressed in this thread. Commentary–even critical commentary–is fine. Attacking posters who may not be here or attacking current posters for positions that they have not recently expressed is not acceptable. Let’s avoid starting any fights or re-opening old wounds. **[/Moderating]** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894.md?page=25)