# I waterboard! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 22, 2007, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894 "2007-12-22T02:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![bdaswat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@bdaswat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdaswat)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/101 "2007-12-23T01:17:40Z")
Also, I’m not a conservative at all. I’m a libertarian if that’s of any relevance. I think Both parties suck. So you can make assumptions about me without knowing my character. Nice, now you’re contradicting yourselves. I’m done with this eyewash. Feel free to bash me more, because I won’t see it, and I know thats how your seething snake-oil salesmen are. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/102 "2007-12-23T01:19:41Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] Feel free to bash me more, because I won’t see it, and I know thats how your seething snake-oil salesmen are. [/QUOTE] …blind? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/103 "2007-12-23T01:21:46Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] …you Liberal Scumbags… …You psycho liberal nuts… [/QUOTE] **Moderator’s Warning** : **Bdaswat** , the [rules for the Great Debates forum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=220232) do not permit personal insults against other posters. The statements quoted above _definitely_ violate this rule, several other portions of your posts probably do or come right up against breaking that rule, and the entire post is more of a “rant” or “flame”. The rules against personal insults and “flame” attacks apply in Great Debates and all the forums on this board outside of our [BBQ Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/forumdisplay.php?f=5). If you feel you absolutely must flame or attack another poster, you must open a thread in the Pit to do so, not post the attack here. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/104 "2007-12-23T01:24:29Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] Again “What Exit” why don’t you respond to anything I said instead of commenting on my “level of maturity” (see that’s another typical liberal tactic, discredit me so you don’t have to respond to the truth) Water boarding is simply the “bandwagon” story of the year. If you are en enemy of this country and have information that could potentially save the lives of the TRULY innocent (even if it’s 1 person), I don’t care what they do to the guy. [/QUOTE] But I did respond in addition to commenting on your second post. As to the Water Boarding, I am a **R** epublican, Reagan supporting & I served in Reagan’s Navy moderate\* that thinks the USA needs to maintain the moral high ground while using our military force where needed to make the world safer and a better place. This particular war in Iraq had nothing to do with our security, though if it had been handled better, perhaps we would have at least made the world a better place. Back to Water Boarding; it is torture and the USA is not suppose to use torture. It is wrong and violates that for which our country stands. There is no excuse for executive level support of this torture. None at all. Once you sink to the level of your enemies, are you any better? Jim - I would even make an attempt to defend an opinion that Nixon was a damn good President despite being morally corrupt and a vicious pit bull. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/105 "2007-12-23T01:24:59Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] Water boarding is simply the “bandwagon” story of the year. If you are en enemy of this country and have information that could potentially save the lives of the TRULY innocent (even if it’s 1 person), I don’t care what they do to the guy. [/QUOTE] Seriously, what is your point? Are you trying to say that waterboarding isn’t as bad as anyone says, but it does make terrorists give up secrets? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/106 "2007-12-23T01:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] What is wrong with you people? This just proves your libs that flood the internet with Liberal propaganda are truly cave dwellers truly disconnected with the outside world. Clearly my statement about $100,000 was a figure of speech, not a real offer firstly. Again “What Exit” why don’t you respond to anything I said instead of commenting on my “level of maturity” (see that’s another typical liberal tactic, discredit me so you don’t have to respond to the truth) Saying that I need to “know” the OP and have a relationship or whatever to “understand and comment” on the issue is absurd. I don’t need to know anything about the guy to comment on the believability of his story. Water boarding is simply the “bandwagon” story of the year. If you are en enemy of this country and have information that could potentially save the lives of the TRULY innocent (even if it’s 1 person), I don’t care what they do to the guy. [/QUOTE] Then why would you care if waterboarding were indeed as horrible as described in the OP? No one thinks that you need to know the history of the board to comment on things; we’re just saying that you’ve made some assumptions that are counter to reality. I’m not trying to smear you. I’m just trying to enlighten you. And in that vein, another Scylla post: > [@Scylla](#): > > [Bill Clinton, a serial rapist and habitual sexual harasser, who lied under oath concerning these things abused his office and had sexual relations with a young intern betraying his wife’s trust. Prior to that he sold rooms in the Whitehouse like Motel rooms to high ranking party functionaries and partycontributors, got involved in illegal land deals defrauding investors of millions and covering it up to the extent of ordering the hit on Vince Foster, the one guy who could nail him. His wife is undisputably the last one to talk to him so clearly she was in on it, just like she was in on the illegal trade parking of the commodity deals, the trigger man most likely being Al “Blood and” Gore, himself who has never accounted for his whereabouts during the time in question. > > And yet, you left wingers are upset because Valerie Plame sets up her husband to file a report without due diligence and then pretend to expertise all over the NYT editorial pages, in one of the most obvious smear conspiracies of the 20th century, and how Dare Scooter Libby accidently mention her name to defend the people she is setting up even though her name had been thrown around by everybody else first… that fucker’s gotta go down! > > Partisan fantasy is fun!]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7486151&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7486151&postcount=68)) And [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349871&page=1&pp=50) we have an entire thread discussing the White House and its stance on torture. Friend **Scylla** joins the discussion on page 2. I see that I erred slightly in my recollection of his past stance on torture - he had believed waterboarding was torture, but he did defend Bush et al with regards to torture at some length. And just for fun, [The horror of Blimps](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=160851&highlight=blimps). ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/107 "2007-12-23T01:29:38Z")
Dnftt/s. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/108 "2007-12-23T01:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Dnftt/s. [/QUOTE] **Moderator’s Warning:** **Hostile Dialect** , accusations of trolling belong in the Pit, _not_ in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/109 "2007-12-23T01:49:34Z")
**Scylla** , your post is seriously one of the most freaked up things I’ve ever read on the Dope. I’m all for fighting ignorance and everything… but _yeesh_. I didn’t really have a problem before accepting waterboarding as a horrible and inhumane practice, but the OP really just cements it into my mind in an unforgettable way. I am really glad you are still alive to tell the tale. Please be safe in the future! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/110 "2007-12-23T01:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] …\* I would even make an attempt to defend an opinion that Nixon was a damn good President despite being morally corrupt and a vicious pit bull. [/SIZE] [/QUOTE] “That aside, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/111 "2007-12-23T02:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] “That aside, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?” [/QUOTE] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ratbastid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@ratbastid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratbastid)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/112 "2007-12-23T03:19:11Z")
This thread disturbed me enough I had to register a guest account to reply. Talk about “don’t try this at home”! My question, Scylla, is this: If you were a captive of people who were going to waterboard you unless you “talked”, I presume you’d do just about anything to prevent that from happening again? I mean, you mentioned selling your children, so I have to think you’d “talk”. Would your “talk” necessarily have ANYTHING to do with facts, or would you just be saying whatever you calculated to be most likely to prevent more waterboarding? Thanks for the very vivid depiction of the experience. I’ve been under the misunderstanding that the impact of waterboarding is mostly psychological–like people are being threatened with ACTUAL drowning and don’t know it’s set up to be “safe” for them. I get it, though. This practice triggers reflexive panic at a completely non-intellectual level, and a victim would do anything to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Savannah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Savannah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Savannah)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/113 "2007-12-23T03:50:48Z")
This has hit [Metafilter.](http://www.metafilter.com/67667/I-Waterboard) ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/114 "2007-12-23T04:45:30Z")
Not that I expect **bdaswat** to reply, but **Syclla’s** statements in reference to **Liberal** were friendly digs at another poster on this board. Last year I read some posts on a Zombie themed board I read, wherein a member broke his teeth biting a raw roast through denim jeans. **Scylla** , you don’t know me from adam, but you win, and you get another notch of my respect. OUTSTANDING efforts to combat ignorance, going above and beyond. Well done. ps- Don’t do it again. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/115 "2007-12-23T05:01:43Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] Yea… Attack me instead of attacking the issue at hand. Typical. PS if that guy’s a conservative, I must be a fascist. [/QUOTE] The issue at hand is one poster that took it upon himself to see what the true effects of waterboarding really are, and to see if the conclusion can be made that it is torture. Because if you listen to the media, on one hand it is extreme torture. And on the other, it’s a theme park ride that isn’t harmful and is fun for kids. The OP wanted to know the truth first hand. That’s it, end of story. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/116 "2007-12-23T06:15:15Z")
Just to be clear here, so there’s no chance of a misunderstanding. There is no question, none whatsoever, that massive electric shock to the testicles is torturous and hugely painful. Affidavits as long as your arm. Massive amounts of corroboration, expert testimony, anectdotal evidence. The question has been entirely resolved. No doubt about it. None. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/117 "2007-12-23T06:41:58Z")
When I was ten, I went sailing with my older brother. We tipped. He told me to swim to the end of the mast and swim it into the wind, so we could right it easier. My life jacket got caught on the mast as the boat began to turtle (to turtle means the boat is upside down, mast pointing down). The more we turtled, the more I slid up the mast, and the more I became stuck. The tension on the life jacket’s straps and the fact that it was the seventies, and big metal clips were how life jackets were held together combined to make it so my little ten year old hands had no chance to free myself. I wasn’t just drowning. I was ten, and I knew I was dying. I had hit that magic point, and my body was involuntarily convulsing. I had lost all control. Then my brother managed to right the boat enough that I caught a breath. He yelled at me for not pointing the mast in the right direction. He yelled at me to get over to the dagger board and help. I was worthless. I was shaking, and when he did right the boat, he had to drag me onto it. I was ten, and I’m pretty sure with hindsight that I was having a nervous breakdown. I had been broken. That was around thirty years ago. There is no way in hell that I would volunteer to get that feeling again. It still scares the hell out of me just thinking about it. Dude. Ask us if you plan on any more stunts like this. We might just give you some insight as to why you shouldn’t! ---
**Author:** ![evi1joe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@evi1joe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evi1joe)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/118 "2007-12-23T08:22:39Z")
Politics aside, your description totally sold me against waterboarding. Even though I’m very liberal (Obama/Feingold '08!!), I thought the waterboarding debate was more crap-liberal-politics than anything. It didn’t sound all that bad compared to breaking fingers, drilling holes, etc., so I figured it was being overblown as a sensationalizing sound byte to criticize Bush (since the masses prefer simple sound bytes to genuine analysis and thoughtful critique–today’s masses are to informed citizens, what Bush is to presidents, what Britney Spears is to music, what McDonalds is to food, etc.) . In any case, thanks for the write-up. From reading a few posts, I’m fairly certain that I’m as intelligent as you–and most likely more so since I don’t waterboard myself–however, I’m definitely not as tough (though I do carry a 9mm that is just as tough as any man…I know, I know, I’m a bad liberal in that sense). I’d be interested to see if you have any psychological fallout from the ordeal. Because you did it to yourself, I’d think you’d be alright…but it sounds like it shook you to the core (so maybe take it slow out there for awhile). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/119 "2007-12-23T08:24:21Z")
. Thank you, **Scylla**. . ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2007, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894/120 "2007-12-23T09:05:11Z")
[QUOTE=bdaswat] These people that are water-boarded 90% of the time are terrorist caught in the act of war crimes, NOT random citizens. [/QUOTE] So you’re ok with the 10% who are just average Joes? Oh, and the [100 mile runs](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon)aren’t that crazy. I mean, I think **Scylla** ’s nuts for doing them, but they’re real. Anyway, **Scylla** , which one are you running? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-waterboard/430894.md?page=7)