Also, I’m not a conservative at all. I’m a libertarian if that’s of any relevance. I think Both parties suck. So you can make assumptions about me without knowing my character. Nice, now you’re contradicting yourselves. I’m done with this eyewash. Feel free to bash me more, because I won’t see it, and I know thats how your seething snake-oil salesmen are.
…blind?
Moderator’s Warning: Bdaswat, the rules for the Great Debates forum do not permit personal insults against other posters. The statements quoted above definitely violate this rule, several other portions of your posts probably do or come right up against breaking that rule, and the entire post is more of a “rant” or “flame”.
The rules against personal insults and “flame” attacks apply in Great Debates and all the forums on this board outside of our BBQ Pit. If you feel you absolutely must flame or attack another poster, you must open a thread in the Pit to do so, not post the attack here.
But I did respond in addition to commenting on your second post.
As to the Water Boarding, I am a Republican, Reagan supporting & I served in Reagan’s Navy moderate* that thinks the USA needs to maintain the moral high ground while using our military force where needed to make the world safer and a better place. This particular war in Iraq had nothing to do with our security, though if it had been handled better, perhaps we would have at least made the world a better place.
Back to Water Boarding; it is torture and the USA is not suppose to use torture. It is wrong and violates that for which our country stands. There is no excuse for executive level support of this torture. None at all.
Once you sink to the level of your enemies, are you any better?
Jim
- I would even make an attempt to defend an opinion that Nixon was a damn good President despite being morally corrupt and a vicious pit bull.
Seriously, what is your point? Are you trying to say that waterboarding isn’t as bad as anyone says, but it does make terrorists give up secrets?
Then why would you care if waterboarding were indeed as horrible as described in the OP?
No one thinks that you need to know the history of the board to comment on things; we’re just saying that you’ve made some assumptions that are counter to reality. I’m not trying to smear you. I’m just trying to enlighten you.
And in that vein, another Scylla post:
And here we have an entire thread discussing the White House and its stance on torture. Friend Scylla joins the discussion on page 2. I see that I erred slightly in my recollection of his past stance on torture - he had believed waterboarding was torture, but he did defend Bush et al with regards to torture at some length.
And just for fun, The horror of Blimps.
Dnftt/s.
Moderator’s Warning: Hostile Dialect, accusations of trolling belong in the Pit, not in Great Debates.
Scylla, your post is seriously one of the most freaked up things I’ve ever read on the Dope. I’m all for fighting ignorance and everything… but yeesh. I didn’t really have a problem before accepting waterboarding as a horrible and inhumane practice, but the OP really just cements it into my mind in an unforgettable way. I am really glad you are still alive to tell the tale. Please be safe in the future!
“That aside, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”
This thread disturbed me enough I had to register a guest account to reply. Talk about “don’t try this at home”!
My question, Scylla, is this: If you were a captive of people who were going to waterboard you unless you “talked”, I presume you’d do just about anything to prevent that from happening again? I mean, you mentioned selling your children, so I have to think you’d “talk”. Would your “talk” necessarily have ANYTHING to do with facts, or would you just be saying whatever you calculated to be most likely to prevent more waterboarding?
Thanks for the very vivid depiction of the experience. I’ve been under the misunderstanding that the impact of waterboarding is mostly psychological–like people are being threatened with ACTUAL drowning and don’t know it’s set up to be “safe” for them. I get it, though. This practice triggers reflexive panic at a completely non-intellectual level, and a victim would do anything to stop it.
This has hit Metafilter.
Not that I expect bdaswat to reply, but Syclla’s statements in reference to Liberal were friendly digs at another poster on this board.
Last year I read some posts on a Zombie themed board I read, wherein a member broke his teeth biting a raw roast through denim jeans.
Scylla, you don’t know me from adam, but you win, and you get another notch of my respect. OUTSTANDING efforts to combat ignorance, going above and beyond. Well done.
ps- Don’t do it again. Sheesh.
The issue at hand is one poster that took it upon himself to see what the true effects of waterboarding really are, and to see if the conclusion can be made that it is torture. Because if you listen to the media, on one hand it is extreme torture. And on the other, it’s a theme park ride that isn’t harmful and is fun for kids. The OP wanted to know the truth first hand. That’s it, end of story.
Just to be clear here, so there’s no chance of a misunderstanding. There is no question, none whatsoever, that massive electric shock to the testicles is torturous and hugely painful. Affidavits as long as your arm. Massive amounts of corroboration, expert testimony, anectdotal evidence. The question has been entirely resolved. No doubt about it. None.
When I was ten, I went sailing with my older brother. We tipped. He told me to swim to the end of the mast and swim it into the wind, so we could right it easier. My life jacket got caught on the mast as the boat began to turtle (to turtle means the boat is upside down, mast pointing down). The more we turtled, the more I slid up the mast, and the more I became stuck. The tension on the life jacket’s straps and the fact that it was the seventies, and big metal clips were how life jackets were held together combined to make it so my little ten year old hands had no chance to free myself.
I wasn’t just drowning. I was ten, and I knew I was dying. I had hit that magic point, and my body was involuntarily convulsing. I had lost all control.
Then my brother managed to right the boat enough that I caught a breath. He yelled at me for not pointing the mast in the right direction. He yelled at me to get over to the dagger board and help. I was worthless. I was shaking, and when he did right the boat, he had to drag me onto it. I was ten, and I’m pretty sure with hindsight that I was having a nervous breakdown. I had been broken.
That was around thirty years ago. There is no way in hell that I would volunteer to get that feeling again. It still scares the hell out of me just thinking about it.
Dude. Ask us if you plan on any more stunts like this. We might just give you some insight as to why you shouldn’t!
Politics aside, your description totally sold me against waterboarding.
Even though I’m very liberal (Obama/Feingold '08!!), I thought the waterboarding debate was more crap-liberal-politics than anything. It didn’t sound all that bad compared to breaking fingers, drilling holes, etc., so I figured it was being overblown as a sensationalizing sound byte to criticize Bush (since the masses prefer simple sound bytes to genuine analysis and thoughtful critique–today’s masses are to informed citizens, what Bush is to presidents, what Britney Spears is to music, what McDonalds is to food, etc.) . In any case, thanks for the write-up. From reading a few posts, I’m fairly certain that I’m as intelligent as you–and most likely more so since I don’t waterboard myself–however, I’m definitely not as tough (though I do carry a 9mm that is just as tough as any man…I know, I know, I’m a bad liberal in that sense).
I’d be interested to see if you have any psychological fallout from the ordeal. Because you did it to yourself, I’d think you’d be alright…but it sounds like it shook you to the core (so maybe take it slow out there for awhile).
.
Thank you, Scylla.
.
So you’re ok with the 10% who are just average Joes?
Oh, and the 100 mile runsaren’t that crazy. I mean, I think Scylla’s nuts for doing them, but they’re real. Anyway, Scylla, which one are you running?