# I weep for Americans (Global warming poll). **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881 "2009-10-23T17:24:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/41 "2009-10-23T23:46:06Z")
Am I the only one who has the opinion that AGW is probably happening, but that the more important threat facing the world is the current recession. Until we improve the economy I don’t see how we can address AGW. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/42 "2009-10-23T23:49:12Z")
Your opinion is irrelevant in the context of whether global warming is actually happening. What’s really weird about the OP’s Pew link is that Pew attributes to drop in AGW believers to the foundering economy. Now, if the economy is sucking, you can bet the number of people willing to give up X amount of economic growth in exchange for cleaner air will drop. In this case, however, it appears that because the economy is sucking, less people believe in global warming- as though they’re trying to wish away the science. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/43 "2009-10-23T23:50:34Z")
Oh, now I see how intention is playing it. Clever. Clintonesque even. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/44 "2009-10-23T23:56:52Z")
> [@intention](#): > > The poll asked whether the globe “is warming”. Not whether it has been warming over the past 90 years. It was not a question about the “history and science of the last 30 years.” It was whether the earth is warming now. > > And right now, it isn’t warming. :rolleyes: > **[How do human CO2 emissions compare to natural CO2 emissions?](https://skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm)** > > \The CO2 that nature emits (from the ocean and vegetation) is balanced by natural absorptions (again by the ocean and vegetation). Therefore human emissions upset the natural balance, rising CO2 to levels not seen in at least 800,000 years. In... > [@](#): > > The linear trend from 1998 to 2007 > > Next, Fawcett and Jones look for a cooling trend in the 10 years since 1998. They find the linear trend over 1998 to 2007 is a warming trend in all three data-sets. Note that HadCRUT3 displays less warming than NASA GISS and NCDC. This is most likely due to the fact that HadCRUT data doesn’t cover parts of the Arctic where there has been strong warming in recent years. To be more honest, one would have to say that there really was not much warming in the last few years, but also that there was no cooling in reality. > [@intention](#): > > If you are too dumb to notice what your own question is, that’s your problem. I made no claims that this shows anything beyond that the earth is not warming now, and that the models show this in only a few percent of the decadal simulations. The rest is just your sick fantasy. However, not all is lost. You certainly have proven your point about the sad state of science in your case, at least … Now who is fantasizing again? The reality is that when the earth keeps virtually the same levels of heat it is silly to mention cooling. This is why among serious researchers only a steady cooling that reaches the levels of the 70’s or the 80’s could be considered to be a failure of the theory. This graph shows the current state of the predictions and the real data: Ed Hawkins and Rowan Sutton, NCAS-Climate & Walker Institute, University of Reading [http://ncas-climate.nerc.ac.uk/research/uncertainty/exFig1.jpg](http://ncas-climate.nerc.ac.uk/research/uncertainty/exFig1.jpg) The reality is still within the uncertainty levels of the predictions. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/45 "2009-10-24T00:08:27Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I blame the right wing who would (in my not so humble opinion) say anything to fire up the base or make democrats look bad. One of my closest friends is a right winger who thinks it is all a scam. I don’t know who he thinks it is a scam by (he has no answer for this)… I don’t necessarily think it’s a scam, because I believe that most of the people who are convinced of man-made global warming are being sincere and honest in that belief, although I also think there is an element of scammishness in some of the hysteria that gets bandied about by certain GW proponents. The problem many of us on the right have with the idea of man-made global warming and its concurrent threat to the planet is that it’s coming from the left – the Chicken Littles of the world who seem always to be crying that the sky is falling and that more government and more government regulations and regulatory agencies are needed to put a stop to it. Forty years ago we were harvesting all the trees and the world was doomed to suffocation from oxyzen depletion. Thirty years ago the planet was running out of oil and we’ll all die if we don’t stop driving CARS. Many people with leftie sympathies are now so hysterical about smoking (a truly bad and dangerous thing…EVENTUALLY!) that they think any exposure to cigarette smoke anywhere is going to kill them (one drive-through window dingbat at a fast food store reported here at the Dope felt so threatened by a few seconds of exposure to cigarette smoke that she was trying to refuse service to a guy who was smoking in his car! I view her as something of an allegory for global warming hystericalists. The left is always trying for more government control – and to me, especially in light of so much contradictory evidence and opinion from global warming deniers – much of the hysteria and concern over global warming is just another attempt to create more government control over the nation’s industry and citizens. Lefties feel safe and secure in the warm loving arms of government, where they feel protected and shielded from the evil machinations of people and companies trying to make a…dare I say it…_profit_, and they feel exposed and in danger wherever government isn’t running things. So, the more things they can find to put government in control of, the safer they feel. And to many of us on the right – especially in light of so much contradictory evidence and differing expert opinion – this is just one more expression of that leftist desire for more government control. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/46 "2009-10-24T00:11:23Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > How much “power” does the Vice President have over the energy industry? Dick Cheney was reputed to control the energy industry, to the extent of helping them to destroy the planet. You would think Big Al could of at least did something to help the cause. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/47 "2009-10-24T00:16:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And to many of us on the right – especially in light of so much contradictory evidence and differing expert opinion – this is just one more expression of that leftist desire for more government control. The contradictory evidence you talk about is at the creationist level. But to be clear, not all right wingers follow the anti-science agenda, John McCain and others do take the science into account, I do think that right wingers do have a point regarding \*\*how \*\*and \*\*what \*\* to do in dealing with this issue. What is clear to me is that trying to keep this as just a Right vs Left position is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/48 "2009-10-24T00:22:13Z")
No one is trying to keep it that way, it’s just how things of this sort naturally fall. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/49 "2009-10-24T00:26:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s a scam, because I believe that most of the people who are convinced of man-made global warming are being sincere and honest in that belief Forgot about this bit, please check the history on how scientists found the evidence that global warming was an issue, the idea of global warming was not arrived by faith. It was not a matter of belief. \* The Discovery of Global Warming\* [http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm](http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm) \* The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect\* > [@](#): > > In the 19th century, scientists realized that gases in the atmosphere cause a “greenhouse effect” which affects the planet’s temperature. These scientists were interested chiefly in the possibility that a lower level of carbon dioxide gas might explain the ice ages of the distant past. At the turn of the century, Svante Arrhenius calculated that emissions from human industry might someday bring a global warming. Other scientists dismissed his idea as faulty. In 1938, G.S. Callendar argued that the level of carbon dioxide was climbing and raising global temperature, but most scientists found his arguments implausible. It was almost by chance that a few researchers in the 1950s discovered that global warming truly was possible. In the early 1960s, C.D. Keeling measured the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere: it was rising fast. Researchers began to take an interest, struggling to understand how the level of carbon dioxide had changed in the past, and how the level was influenced by chemical and biological forces. They found that the gas plays a crucial role in climate change, so that the rising level could gravely affect our future. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/50 "2009-10-24T00:28:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No one is trying to keep it that way, it’s just how things of this sort naturally fall. I would say that for guys like Hannity and Beck, \*\*unnatural \*\*is the word that comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/51 "2009-10-24T00:36:36Z")
Where was Hannity when the right was poo-pooing the notion we were running out of trees? Or when we were denying that the world was running out of oil? ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/52 "2009-10-24T00:36:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **intention** , I like you. I really do. You’re intelligent, you’re not afraid to challenge conventional wisdom, and you back up most of your assertions. > > However, you didn’t just miss the boat on this one. You’re at the wrong port. _Rising sea levels are a very bad thing, regardless of whether the rate of sea level rise is accelerating._ Your link shows that sea levels are rising, and it doesn’t matter if they’re rising geometrically or exponentially. **Really Not All That Bright** , thank you for the (partial) vote of confidence. I agree that sea levels are rising. They are doing so at the same rate as during the last century. However, I seem to have missed the headlines about how rising sea levels were one of the biggest problems of the 20th century. War, yes, and famine, and droughts, and a host of things were “very bad things” in the 20th century, they killed millions and millions of people, the headlines were full of them … but sea level? If rising sea levels are a “very bad thing”, where are the reports of immense damage and the huge loss of life from the rise in the 20th century? Yes, rising sea levels will likely continue to cause problems in the 21st century, just as they did in the 20th century … but that doesn’t fill me with dread. We’ve dealt with it in the past, we’ll deal with it in the future in the same way. Finally, the idea that coral atolls are threatened by rising sea levels is a joke. Google “charles darwin coral atoll” to see why. There are reasons why coral atolls are having problems, reasons having nothing to do with sea levels … but that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/53 "2009-10-24T00:42:12Z")
> [@Oregon\_sunshine](#): > > I’m not a right-winger by any means (my actual political category is hard to explain) but I am American. I’ve seen statistics like [this](http://www.theresilientearth.com/files/images/sea_temperature_vs_sunspots.jpg) which lead me to wonder what, if any, influence human activity has on the Earth’s temperature. It seems to me that the biggest driver of our planetary temperature would be the Sun, and not our relatively miniscule activities. I’m all for less pollution and all, I’m just not sure that it’s the main reason Earth is becoming warmer (or not)! SUVs and American Idol cause sunspots, don’t you know? ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/54 "2009-10-24T00:47:43Z")
I for one welcome my new Dolphin overlords. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/55 "2009-10-24T00:51:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Where was Hannity when the right was poo-pooing the notion we were running out of trees? Or when we were denying that the world was running out of oil? Running out of trees? Is this a whoosh? According to the [UN FAO](http://faostat.fao.org/site/377/default.aspx#ancor), the forested area in the US has increased every year since 1990. Year, Forested area (hectares) 1990, 298648 1991, 299013 1992, 299377 1993, 299742 1994, 300106 1995, 300471 1996, 300836 1997, 301200 1998, 301565 1999, 301929 2000, 302294 2001, 302453 2002, 302612 2003, 302771 2004, 302930 2005, 303089 2006, 303248 2007, 303407 ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/56 "2009-10-24T00:59:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, of course not. > > But if I see a forest fire is happening, I cannot reliably conclude that it was started by human action. But you can’t rule it out… especially if you know people have been playing with matches nearby. The problem is, people say, “But it’s a natural cycle” as if it means we can’t possibly have caused it this time… when all it means is that it’s happened before. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/57 "2009-10-24T01:00:48Z")
> [@intention](#): > > Running out of trees? Is this a whoosh? According to the [UN FAO](http://faostat.fao.org/site/377/default.aspx#ancor), the forested area in the US has increased every year since 1990. > > Year, Forested area (hectares) > 1990, 298648 > 1991, 299013 > 1992, 299377 > 1993, 299742 > 1994, 300106 > 1995, 300471 > 1996, 300836 > 1997, 301200 > 1998, 301565 > 1999, 301929 > 2000, 302294 > 2001, 302453 > 2002, 302612 > 2003, 302771 > 2004, 302930 > 2005, 303089 > 2006, 303248 > 2007, 303407 So, uh… how’s the rest of the world doing? Specifically, South America? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/58 "2009-10-24T01:01:26Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > SUVs and American Idol cause sunspots, don’t you know? Actually the statistic that he is referring to is based on a \*\*very \*\*selective end of the graph. What deniers do not show people is that the correlation fails when the graph is plotted beyond the 80’s > **[Global Warming Deniers Favorite "Sunspot" Theory Refuted... Again](https://www.desmog.com/2008/04/04/global-warming-deniers-favorite-sunspot-theory-refuted-again/)** > > If one were to reach into the grab bag of global warming skeptics’ favorite theories, one might pull out any number of speculation-laden papers and editorials regarding the supposed effect of solar activity on the Earth’s climate. For example, here’s... > [@](#): > > The Great Global Warming Swindle was essentially a global warming skeptic-laden response to Al Gore’s fact-based documentary, An Inconvenient Truth. It came out in May 2007. Its focus on Svensmark’s theory is perplexing, given that three years earlier, scientists reported: > > "A new scientific study concludes that changes in the Sun’s output cannot be causing modern-day climate change. > It shows that for the last 20 years, the Sun’s output has declined, yet temperatures on Earth have risen. > > It also shows that modern temperatures are not determined by the Sun’s effect on cosmic rays, as has been claimed. > > Writing in the Royal Society’s journal Proceedings A, the researchers say cosmic rays may have affected climate in the past, but not the present. > > ‘This should settle the debate,’ said Mike Lockwood, from the UK’s Rutherford-Appleton Laboratory, who carried out the new analysis together with Claus Froehlich from the World Radiation Center in Switzerland. More on the deception of that graph in this video at 7:10: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/boj9ccV9htk/maxresdefault.jpg "The Big Swindle Movie") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boj9ccV9htk) that “The Big Swindle Movie” clip shows yet again many examples of deception coming from the “not so skeptical” side. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/59 "2009-10-24T01:54:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I don’t necessarily think it’s a scam, because I believe that most of the people who are convinced of man-made global warming are being sincere and honest in that belief, although I also think there is an element of scammishness in some of the hysteria that gets bandied about by certain GW proponents. > > The problem many of us on the right have with the idea of man-made global warming and its concurrent threat to the planet is that it’s coming from the left – the Chicken Littles of the world who seem always to be crying that the sky is falling and that more government and more government regulations and regulatory agencies are needed to put a stop to it. Forty years ago we were harvesting all the trees and the world was doomed to suffocation from oxyzen depletion. Thirty years ago the planet was running out of oil and we’ll all die if we don’t stop driving CARS. Many people with leftie sympathies are now so hysterical about smoking (a truly bad and dangerous thing…EVENTUALLY!) that they think any exposure to cigarette smoke anywhere is going to kill them (one drive-through window dingbat at a fast food store reported here at the Dope felt so threatened by a few seconds of exposure to cigarette smoke that she was trying to refuse service to a guy who was smoking in his car! I view her as something of an allegory for global warming hystericalists. > > The left is always trying for more government control – and to me, especially in light of so much contradictory evidence and opinion from global warming deniers – much of the hysteria and concern over global warming is just another attempt to create more government control over the nation’s industry and citizens. Lefties feel safe and secure in the warm loving arms of government, where they feel protected and shielded from the evil machinations of people and companies trying to make a…dare I say it…_profit_, and they feel exposed and in danger wherever government isn’t running things. So, the more things they can find to put government in control of, the safer they feel. And to many of us on the right – especially in light of so much contradictory evidence and differing expert opinion – this is just one more expression of that leftist desire for more government control. Nice laundry list of fallacies. It’s like you can go through the Fallacy Files and find an example of every one in this one fucking post. Name calling - check. Historical fallacy - check. Strawman argument - check. Poisoning the well - check. Now try actually making an argument, oh ignorance fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/60 "2009-10-24T02:06:43Z")
You’re right, that was one fucked up post. I misspelled oxygen (where the hell did that z come from, anyway?) and left out a paren. :smack: And besides, it wasn’t an argument; it was an explanation. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881.md?page=4)