# I weep for Americans (Global warming poll). **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881 "2009-10-23T17:24:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/141 "2009-10-27T08:07:20Z")
> [@intention](#): > > **L. G who believes in global warming** complained bitterly that I said that there has been no warming in ten years. Do the math. Unless you are seriously saying that Science Magazine is a whoosh … They did whoosh you. > [@intention](#): > > Finally, what is an _“eventuality that is protected, but that is only happening in [my] mind.”_? Computer correction got it wrong. (Projected, not protected) I was trying to point out that if there is no more warming, then it follows that there should be no need to deal with issues that would never take place. I mean you are insisting basically that it is safe to assumed that more warming will not come. But uncertainty goes both ways, just as it is reckless IMHO to talk about end of the world scenarios regarding this issue, I do think it is stupid to assume that nothing will take place. And that is because the evidence is not kind nowadays to the “nothing will happen” position, it does not help that most of the contrarian blogs depend on people that lie. > **[Let the backpedalling begin](https://deepclimate.org/2009/10/07/let-the-backpedalling-begin/)** > > The latest battle over the “hockey stick” has taken quite a turn, one that may finally lay to rest all the  absurd claims of its demise made by contrarians (not to mention apparently li… > [@](#): > > The latest battle over the “hockey stick” has taken quite a turn, one that may finally lay to rest all the absurd claims of its demise made by contrarians (not to mention apparently libelous accusations of scientific malfeasance). In previous posts, we discussed climate blogger Steve McIntyre’s scurrilous accusations of “cherrypicking” against UK dendrochronolgist Keith Briffa, and summarized a a quick technical critique of McIntyre’s work by a dendrchronologist known as Delayed Oscillator. > > Now comes new evidence that McIntyre’s accusations were completely false. And not only that, one of the Russian researchers who actually control the raw tree-ring data that McIntyre was mistakenly hounding Briffa for, has apparently confirmed that utilization of a newer more complete Yamal data set has no substantial effect on Briffa’s Yamal temperature reconstruction. > **[Anatomy of a lie: How Marc Morano and Lorne Gunter spun Mojib Latif’s remarks...](https://deepclimate.org/2009/10/02/anatomy-of-a-lie-how-morano-and-gunter-spun-latif-out-of-contro/)** > > The blogosphere has been atwitter over the latest supposed defection of a climate scientist to the dark side. Once again, the contrarians have been egged on by a well-timed fabrication from Marc Mo… > [@](#): > > But those gaffes are nothing compared to the horrendous distortions of the initial confused accounts now circulating throughout the contrarian echo chamber, where literally hundreds of websites and blogs have echoed Morano’s and Gunter’s gross misrepresentations. > > It’s high time to correct the record, which I will endeavour to do with the kind assistance of Mojib Latif himself, who has been most generous in answering my queries (our complete exchange can be found here). > > Read the following sequence of quotes and weep: > > ``` > * Sept. 1: It may well happen that you enter a decade, or maybe even two, when the temperature cools, relative to the present level. - Mojib Latif at World Climate Conference in Geneva > * Sept. 4: One of the world’s top climate modellers said Thursday we could be about to enter one or even two decades during which temperatures cool. – Fred Pearce, New Scientist. > * Sept. 5: UN Fears (More) Global Cooling Commeth! IPCC Scientist Warns UN: We are about to enter ‘one or even 2 decades during which temps cool’ – Marc Morano, Climate Depot (CFACT) > * Sept. 19: Latif conceded … that we are likely entering “one or even two decades during which temperatures cool.” - Lorne Gunter, Calgary Herald. > * Sept. 25: Mojib Latif of Kiel University in Germany told a UN conference earlier this month that he is now predicting global cooling for several decades. - Marc Morano, Climate Depot (CFACT). > * Sept. 28: 1240 hits, and counting, for the Google search “Latif” “ likely entering one or even two decades during which temperatures cool” > > ``` > > The first step in this sorry story, of course, was the misunderstanding of Latif’s remarks by Fred Pearce, in the New Scientist article entitled “World’s climate could cool first, warm later”. As explained in the careful dissection of Latif’s original remarks at the ThingsBreak blog, Latif’s hypothetical cautionary situation was misinterpreted as an actual prediction, concerning the coming decade. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/142 "2009-10-27T09:05:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I also I do remember that there are projections of more rain, (but that also gets us to a different problem, flooding) but once again: location, location, location. … If a given location is forecast to get more rain, people say “danger, danger, flooding”, and if it is forecast to get less rain it’s “danger, danger, drought” … What climate would make people happy? No matter what is forecast, it’s interpreted as a disaster … The ugly reality is that climate will continue to change. It will help some folks and hurt some folks. Whether it warms or cools. Whether it is wetter or drier. What makes the ski resorts happy makes the farmers weep … But in the mythical land of AGW, there is no good change. All change is bad. You see, once there was a wonderful time when the climate was just perfect, where it never rained 'til after sundown, and by eight am the morning fog had flown. But then evil humanity ate of the fruit of the carbon, and for our sins we have been cursed with either floods or droughts but never the right amount of rain, and with a climate that changes at the most inconvenient moments … So I read that the solution to all of this, the way to reinstitute climate Eden where the climate never changes at all, is to eat our pets, and cut the population down to a billion, and drive nothing but hybrids, and keep our cows from farting, and don’t eat meat, and cease all development, and use both sides of the toilet paper, and move closer to work, and stop the expansion of Heathrow, and put a turbine on every roof, and for goodness sakes don’t let the poor countries ever develop their economies unless they do it using nothing but sun and wind. Oh, and Greenpeace assures us that we can fight climate change by donating to Greenpeace. Really. Otherwise, we will be subject to the following ills, each of which we have been assured by some “expert” is going to result from climate change: Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, poppies more potent, Africa devastated, Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, African summer frost, aggressive weeds, Air France crash, air pressure changes, airport malaria, Agulhas current, Al Qaeda and Taliban Being Helped, Alaska reshaped, moves, allergy season longer, alligators in the Thames, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, animals shrink, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Arctic warming (not), Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer better, beer shortage, beer worse, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird strikes, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds decline (Wales), birds driven north, birds face longer migrations, birds return early, birds shrink, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blood contaminated, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brain eating amoebae, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city, Britain Siberian, British monsoon, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, carbon crimes, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, coast beauty spots lost, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, coffee berry borer, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, crabgrass menace, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid’s health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, deadly virus outbreaks, death rate increase (US), deaths to reach 6 million, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, dig sites threatened, disappearance of coastal cities, disasters, diseases move north, dog disease, Dolomites collapse, dozen deadly diseases - or not, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth axis tilt, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, possums, walrus, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, salamanders, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever, figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fires fanned in Nepal, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish head north, fish shrinking, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flames stoked, flesh eating disease, flies on Everest, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, flora dispersed, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), football team migration, footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, geese decline in Hampshire, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, golf course to drown, golf Masters wrecked, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, gravity shift, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, haggis threatened, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, health risks, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insect invasion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of crabgrass, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of king crabs, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, large trees decline, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers’ income increased (surprise surprise!), lawyers want more, legionnaires’ surge, lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, locust plagues suppressed, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, Melanoma decline, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National Parks damaged, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean acidification faster, ocean dead spots, ocean dead zones unleashed, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, oceans noisier, Olympic Games to end, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, penguin chicks smaller, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, pines decline, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plants lose protein, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears deaf, polar bears drowning, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, rabid bats, radars taken out, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, reindeer endangered, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, seismic activity, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking sheep, shrinking shrine, Sidney Opera House wiped out, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall decrease, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snow thicker, soaring food prices, societal collapse, soil change, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders getting bigger, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid larger, squid population explosion, squid tamed, squirrels reproduce earlier, stick insects, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, terrorists (India), threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tigers eat people, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, toxic seaweed, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, truffles down, tundra plant life boost, turtles crash, turtle feminised, turtles lay earlier, UFO sightings, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, uprooted - 6 million, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, violin decline, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, war between US and Canada, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whale beachings, whales lose weight, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, winds stronger, winds weaker, wine - Australian baked, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine - Scotland best, wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World War 4, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, and Yellow fever. Now, before someone thinks I made up that list and starts yelling “Cite! Cite!”, a complete list of citations for where each and every one of these has been said to be the “probable” or “likely” or “expected” result of global warming can be found [here](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm) … and folks wonder why I’m not worried when \*\*GIGObuster who believes in AGW \*\*cites the latest US Army certified possibility of a future disaster that possibly might have an off chance of maybe happening somewhere fifty years from now? It’s because I’ve been threatened with much worse things from global warming than a flood or a drought or sea level rise — I’ve been threatened with the end of French wine … ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/143 "2009-10-27T09:25:12Z")
The first link does not work. I suspect a Google vomit. Such is the quality of your research. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/144 "2009-10-27T09:50:03Z")
But, besides repeating that I don’t agree with all the worrywarts, one has to point the “quality” of the intellect in that site: [http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/number%20watch.htm](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/number%20watch.htm) The guy could not had pick a more convenient logo. And one can stop just at his 'how do we know they are lying" page, full of paranoia, conspiracy theories and just plain lying, one should only read the item on the hockey stick that I posted two posts back and check his note on the same on the “Secrecy” section. [http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/lying.htm](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/lying.htm) Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/145 "2009-10-27T13:06:43Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Mencken also said:“the common man is a fool” > > But like Gary Larson had a scientist said: We know that they are fools gentlemen (talking to other scientists and looking at goofy subjects outside the room), what kind of fools? 🙂 > > Please report if you are an anti-vaxer or just a misinformed fellow regarding the risks of H1N1. Neither. It is just waaay overblown. 1000 deaths? Sounds scary, but out of a population of 300,000,000, not so much. We are all het up about this, but way more people die from the regular flu. That being said, the best way to avoid this is to be healthy. Eat well, exercise, and wash your hands. And don’t get stressed out over the latest media scare. Stress weakens the immune system too. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/146 "2009-10-27T15:59:19Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Neither. It is just waaay overblown. 1000 deaths? Sounds scary, but out of a population of 300,000,000, not so much. We are all het up about this, but way more people die from the regular flu. > > That being said, the best way to avoid this is to be healthy. Eat well, exercise, and wash your hands. And don’t get stressed out over the latest media scare. Stress weakens the immune system too. I do agree that fears should be lowered, but this is also a case were one can not dismiss it. > **[PNI Atlantic News](https://www.saltwire.com/category/nova-scotia/)** > > Read the latest news and headlines out of Nova Scotia. Keep up with the stories and local news that matter to you. > [@](#): > > The New England Journal of Medicine reported this month that pregnant women suffering from swine flu were admitted into intensive care units in Australia and New Zealand during their just completed winter at a rate nine times that normally expected based on their population. > > The bottom line is young people are getting severely ill, and in some cases dying, from swine flu in numbers much, much higher than those normally stricken by seasonal flu. > > • A recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found swine flu kills people by depriving their blood of oxygen, which, in the most severe cases, leads to organ failure and death. > > The virus attacks the lungs, in many cases in young adults, which can lead to respiratory failure. The good news is that antiviral drugs and mechanical ventilators are often effective in saving lives. But not always. > > • While it’s true that seasonal flu kills far more people than have so far died from swine flu worldwide, two things should be remembered. > > First, this hemisphere is just entering its flu season. > > Second, children and young adults are already dying in numbers greater than you’d expect from seasonal flu. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/147 "2009-10-27T19:14:27Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Neither. It is just waaay overblown. 1000 deaths? Sounds scary, but out of a population of 300,000,000, not so much. We are all het up about this, but way more people die from the regular flu. More people die of it _during the winter_. We aren’t “supposed” to have this many deaths so early into a flu season, which is one of the reasons people are scared. If we already have this many deaths, it’s not too much of a leap to think we’re going to end up with a lot more than the typical 40,000 deaths without a massive vaccine campaign executed **before** a large number people get sick, and the delays in getting the vaccine out coupled with this unheard of early wave of epidemics are making vaccinating people in time to avoid that less likely than anyone wants. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/148 "2009-10-27T20:44:06Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But, besides repeating that I don’t agree with all the worrywarts, one has to point the “quality” of the intellect in that site: > > [http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/number%20watch.htm](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/number%20watch.htm) > > The guy could not had pick a more convenient logo. > > And one can stop just at his 'how do we know they are lying" page, full of paranoia, conspiracy theories and just plain lying, one should only read the item on the hockey stick that I posted two posts back and check his note on the same on the “Secrecy” section. > > [Lying](http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/lying.htm) > > Pathetic. GIGObuster who believes in AGW thinks that because he doesn’t like the site, the links on the site must all be wrong … bad logic, no cookies. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/149 "2009-10-27T20:46:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The first link does not work. > > I suspect a Google vomit. > > Such is the quality of your research. All the links were alive at the time of posting, but such is the nature of the internet that they may not be live now … so go to the second link, duh. I suspect a Google illiterate. My point remains. Threats of what will happen from a few degrees of warming are way, way, way, way overblown. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/150 "2009-10-27T21:01:43Z")
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Those who think that the garbage posted by **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** about the hockeystick and the Yamal substitution is true are invited to read about the actual issues at question [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7374) and [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7437). And if you are truly interested in learning about all of the issues involved, there’s a list of posts [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=209). Read’m and weep … of course, **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** likely won’t read them because he doesn’t like the site. Ummm … opinion of the site ≠ truth value of the contents. Heck, even realclimate says something true once in a while. But despite his reluctance to read things he doesn’t like, I invite **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** to read them just the same, and then come back and tell us if he has found a single factual misrepresentation in any of them, and what it is. I await his comments. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/151 "2009-10-27T21:54:04Z")
Several points - 1. To Canvashoes: The polar bear issue is not an example of scientists lying. > [@](#): > > At the most recent meeting of the IUCN Polar Bear Specialist Group(Copenhagen, 2009), scientists reported that of the 19 subpopulations of polar bears, eight are declining, three are stable, one is increasing, and seven have insufficient data on which to base a decision—this is a change from five that were declining in 2005, five that were stable, and two that were increasing. [http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/bear-facts/](http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/bear-facts/) 1. Also to Cavashoes: there are no scientists on both sides. As GIGObuster already stated, the vast majority of climate scientists agree that the global temperature has been increasing. Even the famous so-called skeptic Lindzen, agrees. He just disagrees on how much is due to water vapor and how much is human caused (he may also disagree with the rate of temperature increase, I don’t know). I don’t think people realize who comprises IPCC. > [@](#): > > People from over 130 countries contributed to the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report over the previous 6 years. These people included **more than 2500 scientific expert reviewers, more than 800 contributing authors, and more than 450 lead authors**.[54] > > Of these, the Working Group 1 report (including the summary for policy makers) included contributions by 600 authors from 40 countries, **over 620 expert reviewers** , a large number of government reviewers, and representatives from 113 governments.[55] > **[Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change)** > > The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is an intergovernmental body of the United Nations. Its job is to "provide governments at all levels with scientific information that they can use to develop climate policies". The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) set up the IPCC in 1988. The United Nations endorsed the creation of the IPCC later that year. It has a secretariat in Geneva, Switzerland, hosted by the WMO. It has 195 The... Here’s what major scientific organizations say: > [@](#): > > Since 2001, **32 national science academies have come together to issue joint declarations confirming anthropogenic global warming, and urging the nations of the world to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases.** The signatories of these statements have been the national science academies of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Cameroon, Canada, the Caribbean, China, France, Ghana, Germany, Indonesia, Ireland, Italy, India, Japan, Kenya, Madagascar, Malaysia, Mexico, Nigeria, New Zealand, Russia, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan, Sweden, Tanzania, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States, Zambia, and Zimbabwe. > [@](#): > > The American Chemical Society stated: > > ``` > Careful and comprehensive scientific assessments have clearly demonstrated that the Earth’s climate system is changing rapidly in response to growing atmospheric burdens of greenhouse gases and absorbing aerosol particles (IPCC, 2007). There is very little room for doubt that observed climate trends are due to human activities. The threats are serious and action is urgently needed to mitigate the risks of climate change. > The reality of global warming, its current serious and potentially disastrous impacts on Earth system properties, and the key role emissions from human activities play in driving these phenomena have been **recognized by earlier versions of this ACS policy statement (ACS, 2004), by other major scientific societies, including the American Geophysical Union (AGU, 2003), the American Meteorological Society (AMS, 2007) and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS, 2007), and by the U. S. National Academies and ten other leading national academies of science (NA, 2005)**.[64] > > ``` > **[Scientific consensus on climate change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change)** > > There is scientific consensus that the Earth has been consistently warming since the start of the Industrial Revolution, that the rate of recent warming is largely unprecedented,: 8 : 11  and that this warming is mainly the result of a rapid increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) caused by human activities. The human activities causing this warming include fossil fuel combustion, cement production, and land use changes such as deforestation,: 10–11  with a significant supporting ro Nearl... 1. As noted by the Australian poster (forgot the name, oops) the difference is that, for some bizarre reason, scientists do not have the respect in the US as they do in other industrialized nations. This allows them to be easily confused when contrarian amateurs and groups with serious corporate conflicts of interest dissemble by ‘teaching the controversy’. Many of you know this was started by the tobacco industry decades ago. The idea was to make people disrespect scientists so that they can confuse the public and win political battles. This has crept into our media with their so-called fair and balances nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/152 "2009-10-27T23:31:47Z")
> [@intention](#): > > GIGObuster who believes in AGW thinks that because he doesn’t like the site, the links on the site must all be wrong … bad logic, no cookies. On the contrary, if you did not had the biases you have you would notice that what I usually do is check the site and see if they have good information, how do they look is a throwaway comment. > [@intention](#): > > Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Those who think that the garbage posted by **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** about the hockeystick and the Yamal substitution is true are invited to read about the actual issues at question [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7374) and [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7437). > > And if you are truly interested in learning about all of the issues involved, there’s a list of posts [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?cat=209). Read’m and weep … of course, **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** likely won’t read them because he doesn’t like the site. Ummm … opinion of the site ≠ truth value of the contents. Heck, even realclimate says something true once in a while. > > But despite his reluctance to read things he doesn’t like, I invite **GIGObuster who believes in AGW** to read them just the same, and then come back and tell us if he has found a single factual misrepresentation in any of them, and what it is. > > I await his comments. Sure, Steve McIntyre is not reliable. > **[Let the backpedalling begin](https://deepclimate.org/2009/10/07/let-the-backpedalling-begin/)** > > The latest battle over the “hockey stick” has taken quite a turn, one that may finally lay to rest all the  absurd claims of its demise made by contrarians (not to mention apparently li… > [@](#): > > First let’s review the accusations from McIntyre, as best we have been able to discern them [Updated Oct. 7 to ensure it is understood these are the alleged actions]: > > 1. Briffa allegedly failed to disclose and archive raw tree-ring measurement data sets for several years, despite an obligation to do so by the data disclosure policies of the journals that published his work, such as Nature and Science. > 2. Briffa (or someone else) allegedly cherrypicked the 17 live tree-ring core samples used for the modern period. (The term “cherrypicking”, of course, implies an intention to affect the result to match a preconceived notion, as seen at Wikipedia here and here. “Cherry picking can refer to the selection of data or data sets so a study or survey will give desired, predictable results which may be misleading or even completely contrary to actuality”.) > 3. Briffa also allegedly cherrypicked by failing to include other available tree-ring data from another site in the same region (the Schweingruber chronology from Khadyta River), even though he had combined more geographically disparate series in other cases where sample sizes were low. The “proper” chronology constructed from these two sites’ data makes the hockey stick “disappear”. > > Now McIntyre has posted part of an email from one of the original Russian researchers, namely Rashit Hantemirov, that sheds new light on all of McIntyre’s contentions, to say the least. (The email was not written to McIntyre, but was forwarded to him by an anonymous correspondent). > > ``` > Low number of used for reconstruction subfossil series is explained by standardisation method (“corridor method”). We had to select the longest series. The same concerns to living trees. There are not much old living trees in this area (in contrast to Polar Urals), therefore we used only 17 (not 12) samples from living trees. At that time we had close collaboration with CRU and I sent to Keith Briffa these raw data. > > So, selection of samples has been made by me taking into account length of individual series as well as common requirements to increment cores (exclusion samples with compression wood, rotten wood etc.). > > As to reliability of recent increase in tree growth – we have updated our data using many additional subfossil and living trees and using RCS-method. I.e. we used not only long series. Therefore many (120) living trees have been used. Finally, we have got almost the Briffa’s result. These results not published yet. I’m going to prepare paper at the end of this / beginning next year. Some preliminary data you can find in some kind of report in Russian > > vak.ed.gov.ru/common/img/uploaded/files/vak/announcements/biolog/2009/13-07/KHantemirovRM.pdf > > fig 2 – sample replication, fig 5 – temperature reconstruction (smoothed by three filters – 50-, 100- and 200-year) [Emphasis added] > > ``` > > As to the first accusation, it should be clear now if it weren’t already (as one Eli Rabett and dhogaza have both shown) that Briffa did not have control, or the right to distribute, the raw data. The data belonged to the Russians (Hantemirov and his co-author Shiyatov). Not only that, but it appears they may not have even let Briffa have the complete data set, only the samples they used in their own work. Why? It might be they had not yet published results using the complete data set, and were loathe to let Briffa do so before they did. But it could also be that not all the living tree samples were available before; the timeline for taking of the samples is not clear. Whatever the details, McIntyre has been clearly barking (and snarling) up the wrong tree, so to speak. > > [Update, Oct. 8: It turns out that McIntyre had the Hantemirov raw data all along - since 2004 (h/t Craig Allen with more at Tim Lambert’s Deltoid)! To quote one Steve McIntyre: “You can’t make this stuff up”.] > > As to the second accusation, it’s true that the Russians pre-selected for age. But they also eliminated some samples for other reasons. More to the point, there is no evidence whatsoever that preselecting for age, necessary for the Russians’ corridor method, would somehow skew the result towards a “hockey stick” shape, let alone that that was the intention. (And, again, it’s not even clear when additional younger living-tree samples were taken; some or most may have been taken later). But in fact, as Hantemirov explains, his application of the RCS (regional curve standardization) method to the larger live core data set now available, gives a result very close to Briffa’s, as seen in Hantemirov’s graphs below. The Yamal hockey stick has magically repaired itself. > > In my view, the third accusation is specious on its face, and the analysis and jerry-rigged chronologies proffered by McIntyre to support it simply do not hold up, as I discussed previously (also see Delayed Oscillator for an analysis of the issues). **If McIntyre still thinks his versions of the Yamal chronologies have merit, then he should submit them to a peer-reviewed scientific journal, as many commentators have already noted.** So my work here is done regarding this pathetic denier. Not content to find out that he has been following paranoid sites, \*\*Intention \*\*had to resort to cite ClimateAudit, It is like seeing a guy that claims that he is not a creationist say to us that “answers in genesis” is a serious site. What the "hockey stick affair demonstrated me is: 1. These deniers do not know what debunked is. No such proclamation came when the National Research Council reported on the research, Nature reported it as “Academy affirms hockey-stick graph” 2. If it was debunked one wonders how Mann and others still continued (and were allowed to) with the research, and later Mann and colleagues published an updated reconstruction. More robust than the previous research, and now contrarians have resorted to bizarre claims and lies against it. 3. In essence places like ClimateAudit mislead many when they said that the research was debunked in the past. Instead of admitting that it was not debunked a myth was maintained to this day, and in a demonstration of faith that they accuse the other side of constantly doing they resort to misrepresentations and lies to continue to try to deny that the science still reports that the current warming is over other recent warming periods like the “medieval warm period” So until I see a sincere and reasonable contrarians there is no need to press the point, Intension already has the answers, he pathetically thinks that undermining a poster in a message board will mean something. Me, I’m content to see him being forced to put some disclaimers to his BS and that others are aware of his sources, he can continue to add childish items to my name for all I care. But in the end, he is just a member of [the climate researchers that don’t do anything](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle94ctt9bsmafc?from=Main.ThePiratesWhoDontDoAnything). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/153 "2009-10-27T23:40:53Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > Several points - > > 1. To Canvashoes: The polar bear issue is not an example of scientists lying. Hey **heatmiserfl** I got Snow Miser on the line! And he is really mad! 😃 Seriously, it is good to see others paying attention. Thanks for the mentions. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/154 "2009-10-28T02:13:38Z")
> [@intention](#): > > When I was younger, I worked in a number of countries in Africa. It is because of my experiences there that I support the “no-regrets” option. As I mentioned above, this is the path of taking actions which will benefit the poor regardless of whether Gigobuster (who believes in AGW) or I are right about CO2. > > While wandering around the web today, I found an article which expresses the issues much better than I could, because it quotes extensively from Africans. Here is a part of the [article](http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?b4f4b1ac-1302-499b-b7bb-7ffe13b447e2): > > This is what turns my stomach about people like L. G. Butts PhD (who believes in AGW) and GIGObuster (who believes in AGW) who get all self-righteous about how they are so noble, how people who oppose them are “fucking morons”, and how they weep for the stupidity of Americans who have had the temerity to notice that the world is not warming now. (Obligatory GIGObuster disclaimer: although it is not warming now, in the future it will start either warming or cooling again, in case you didn’t know that. I wouldn’t want to mislead anyone into thinking that the world will never warm or cool again …). > > Their multi-billion dollar recommended policies, designed to avert a possible threat in fifty years, are causing human misery today by working to prevent development in Africa … and they think they have the moral high ground because they are trying to prevent Africans from building coal fired power plants? I wish I could sentence every one of them to go to Africa, make them talk to the people there, and find out what the real crisis is in Africa. Because I guarantee you one thing — it’s not the fact that atmospheric CO2 has gone from 0.03% to 0.04%, and the Africans know it. That about sums up my entire position, Intention. Thanks! I bet Chinese kids aren’t being told that CO2 is going to kill them all in 50 years… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/155 "2009-10-28T02:45:09Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > That about sums up my entire position, Intention. Thanks! > > I bet Chinese kids aren’t being told that CO2 is going to kill them all in 50 years… As I mentioned before, I agree mostly with [Lomborg](http://www.lomborg.com/faq/). But Chinese kids are told about the issues, and it is still silly to assume scientists are only predicting the end of the world. > **[China's glaciers in rapid retreat due to climate change](https://www.scidev.net/global/news/chinas-glaciers-in-rapid-retreat-due-to-climate-c/)** > > Glaciers are melting rapidly because of climate change in northern China and this could increase desertification, drought and sandstorms. > [@](#): > > Glaciers on China’s Qinghai-Tibet plateau are shrinking by seven per cent a year because of global warming, the state news agency Xinhua reported yesterday (2 May). > > As the glaciers disappear, the high plateau is turning into desert and this will eventually trigger more droughts and sandstorms, warns Dong Guangrong of the Chinese Academy of Sciences. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/156 "2009-10-28T02:54:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > [QUOTE=intention] > But despite his reluctance to read things he doesn’t like, I invite GIGObuster who believes in AGW to read them just the same, and then come back and tell us if he has found a single factual misrepresentation in any of them, and what it is. > > I await his comments. Sure, Steve McIntyre is not reliable. [/quote] As I predicted, GIGObuster is unwilling to read anything but what he believes … and he has just proven it again. In fact, he doesn’t even think about what he quotes … To take just one of the issues, he says: [QUOTE=GIGObuster] As to the first accusation, it should be clear now if it weren’t already (as one Eli Rabett and dhogaza have both shown) that Briffa did not have control, or the right to distribute, the raw data. [/QUOTE] Now think about that most amazing claim for a minute. Both Nature and Science have policies (which they often overlook for their pet scientists) requiring the archiving of data used in studies. Why? Because science cannot proceed without replication. If you can’t replicate a study, it’s not science. It is garbage masquerading as science, laid out there for credulous folks like GIGO to lap up. So let’s set aside for the moment the claim that Briffa couldn’t reveal the data for some reason or another. Regardless of what the reason was, if the data can’t be revealed, it makes his study irreproducible … that is to say, anecdotal, and not science. So **GIGO** is heartily promoting results that can’t be reproduced, a study that cannot be replicated, as science … but that fits perfectly with him not reading anything but what he believes, and handwaving inconvenient facts away because **GIGO who believes in AGW** doesn’t believe the people pointing out the facts are reliable … See, I told you that’s what **GIGO** would do. Like I said, despite my invitation, he wouldn’t read anything but what he wants to believe. He won’t read both sides and make up his on mind, because … well, for starters, that would require that he have one to make up. Instead, he just reads his side and leaves out the rest. He won’t read the comments from the actual people involved. It is not worth discussing science with a man who thinks that hidden data should be believed, regardless of the reason it is hidden. PS - for those who are interested in what Briffa and Steve McIntyre actually said, as opposed to the third hand accounts that **GIGO** prefers, the issues are well laid out by Steve McIntyre [here](http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7257). Another thing for **GIGO** not to read, don’t bother him with facts or what the people involved actually said, he prefers what some blogger said about it somewhere sometime. … Here are the opening paragraphs from that cite … > [@](#): > > In spite of suffering a serious illness (which I understand to be a kidney problem), Keith Briffa has taken the time to comment on the Yamal situation. The comment should be read by interested readers. If Briffa or any of his associates wishes to post a thread here without any editorial control on my part, they are welcome to do so. > > Briffa’s comment leads off with the accusation that I had implied that the recent data had in this chronology had been “purposely selected” by Briffa “specifically because they exhibited recent growth increases”. I want to dispense with this up front. While I expressed surprise that there were so few cores, not only did I not imply that Briffa did any sub-selecting, but I specifically said the opposite. While the precise relationship of the CRU archive to the Hantemirov and Shiyatov subset is not entirely clear, I had speculated that H and S had created a subset that was relevant for their purposes (corridor standardization), but that it was not of an adequate size in the modern period for Briffa’s RCS standardization, stating clearly that it was not my belief that Briffa had crudely selected cores. > > Since Briffa provides no quotation from any of my threads or comments to support his allegation I will review what I actually said. So from the start, we see that Steve McIntyre absolutely and verifiably did not accuse Briffa of “cherry-picking”, a totally false claim that **GIGO** stupidly parrots above, simply because **GIGO** is either too dumb or too prejudiced to read the words of the actual people involved and find out the truth. Read the cite further, there’s more, it’s all the facts that **GIGO** doesn’t have the nerve to read … I invite people who are actually interested in the truth to read the citation. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/157 "2009-10-28T03:13:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As I mentioned before, I agree mostly with [Lomborg](http://www.lomborg.com/faq/). > > But Chinese kids are told about the issues, and it is still silly to assume scientists are only predicting the end of the world. > [http://www.scidev.net/en/news/chinas-glaciers-in-rapid-retreat-due-to-climate-c.html](http://www.scidev.net/en/news/chinas-glaciers-in-rapid-retreat-due-to-climate-c.html) With Chinese coal-fired power plants being brought up every week I get the impression that not much is being done on China’s part to curb AGW…not that it exists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/158 "2009-10-28T03:48:01Z")
> [@intention](#): > > I invite people who are actually interested in the truth to read the citation. Just pap. I’ll wait until McIntyre publishes in a recognized journal. In the meantime you are just useless. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/159 "2009-10-28T03:56:21Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > With Chinese coal-fired power plants being brought up every week I get the impression that not much is being done on China’s part to curb AGW…not that it exists. [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11coal.html) > [@](#): > > But largely missing in the hand-wringing is this: China has emerged in the past two years as the world’s leading builder of more efficient, less polluting coal power plants, mastering the technology and driving down the cost. > > While the United States is still debating whether to build a more efficient kind of coal-fired power plant that uses extremely hot steam, China has begun building such plants at a rate of one a month. > > Construction has stalled in the United States on a new generation of low-pollution power plants that turn coal into a gas before burning it, although Energy Secretary Steven Chu said Thursday that the Obama administration might revive one power plant of this type. But China has already approved equipment purchases for just such a power plant, to be assembled soon in a muddy field here in Tianjin. > > “The steps they’ve taken are probably as fast and as serious as anywhere in power-generation history,” said Hal Harvey, president of ClimateWorks, a group in San Francisco that helps finance projects to limit global warming. Well, the point of the reply was just to deal with the curious meme that goes like “Chinese or Hindus are not worrying about this so we are the only worrywarts”, I still think that they should do more, but I’m a realist. Not much will be done until even more evidence is piled up by 2025. And I notice that that \*\*Intention \*\*just went into full conspiracy mode again. Sad. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881/160 "2009-10-28T04:33:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Just pap. > > I’ll wait until McIntyre publishes in a recognized journal. > > In the meantime you are just useless. Look, you mendacious sack of filth, show some balls here. If you think Steve McIntyre accused Briffa of “cherry picking” (the deliberate pre-selection of just the data that supports your ideas) as you claim, fucking prove it. Show us where he said it. Trot out the quote. Bring on the citation. I don’t think you can do that, because Steve never said it, he said the opposite. It is just more of your vicious bullshit. Either grow a pair and show us where Steve said it, or you will stand revealed to everyone as just a parrot, a man who is all too happy to mindlessly repeat the lies of others because you are too dumb to invent your own. And not a parrot for just anyone, a parrot for other mendacious scumballs of your stripe. You are altogether too willing to repeat some random blogger’s slimy accusation that Steve accused Briffa of “cherry picking” … so here’s your chance to prove me wrong. Bring on the proof that Steve accused Briffa of “cherry-picking”, or slink back into whatever putrid hole you crawled out of. Your opportunity is here. Put up or shut up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-weep-for-americans-global-warming-poll/514881.md?page=9)