Computer correction got it wrong. (Projected, not protected)
I was trying to point out that if there is no more warming, then it follows that there should be no need to deal with issues that would never take place. I mean you are insisting basically that it is safe to assumed that more warming will not come.
But uncertainty goes both ways, just as it is reckless IMHO to talk about end of the world scenarios regarding this issue, I do think it is stupid to assume that nothing will take place. And that is because the evidence is not kind nowadays to the “nothing will happen” position, it does not help that most of the contrarian blogs depend on people that lie.
If a given location is forecast to get more rain, people say “danger, danger, flooding”, and if it is forecast to get less rain it’s “danger, danger, drought” …
What climate would make people happy? No matter what is forecast, it’s interpreted as a disaster …
The ugly reality is that climate will continue to change. It will help some folks and hurt some folks. Whether it warms or cools. Whether it is wetter or drier. What makes the ski resorts happy makes the farmers weep …
But in the mythical land of AGW, there is no good change. All change is bad. You see, once there was a wonderful time when the climate was just perfect, where it never rained 'til after sundown, and by eight am the morning fog had flown. But then evil humanity ate of the fruit of the carbon, and for our sins we have been cursed with either floods or droughts but never the right amount of rain, and with a climate that changes at the most inconvenient moments …
So I read that the solution to all of this, the way to reinstitute climate Eden where the climate never changes at all, is to eat our pets, and cut the population down to a billion, and drive nothing but hybrids, and keep our cows from farting, and don’t eat meat, and cease all development, and use both sides of the toilet paper, and move closer to work, and stop the expansion of Heathrow, and put a turbine on every roof, and for goodness sakes don’t let the poor countries ever develop their economies unless they do it using nothing but sun and wind. Oh, and Greenpeace assures us that we can fight climate change by donating to Greenpeace. Really.
Otherwise, we will be subject to the following ills, each of which we have been assured by some “expert” is going to result from climate change:
Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, poppies more potent, Africa devastated, Africa in conflict, African aid threatened, African summer frost, aggressive weeds, Air France crash, air pressure changes, airport malaria, Agulhas current, Al Qaeda and Taliban Being Helped, Alaska reshaped, moves, allergy season longer, alligators in the Thames, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, animals shrink, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Arctic warming (not), Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer better, beer shortage, beer worse, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird strikes, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds decline (Wales), birds driven north, birds face longer migrations, birds return early, birds shrink, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blood contaminated, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brain eating amoebae, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain one big city, Britain Siberian, British monsoon, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, carbon crimes, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, coast beauty spots lost, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, coffee berry borer, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, crabgrass menace, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid’s health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, deadly virus outbreaks, death rate increase (US), deaths to reach 6 million, Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, dig sites threatened, disappearance of coastal cities, disasters, diseases move north, dog disease, Dolomites collapse, dozen deadly diseases - or not, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth axis tilt, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, possums, walrus, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, salamanders, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever, figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fires fanned in Nepal, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish head north, fish shrinking, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flames stoked, flesh eating disease, flies on Everest, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, flora dispersed, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), football team migration, footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, geese decline in Hampshire, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, golf course to drown, golf Masters wrecked, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, gravity shift, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, haggis threatened, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, health risks, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, icebergs, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insect invasion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of crabgrass, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of king crabs, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, large trees decline, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers’ income increased (surprise surprise!), lawyers want more, legionnaires’ surge, lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, locust plagues suppressed, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, Melanoma decline, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National Parks damaged, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean acidification faster, ocean dead spots, ocean dead zones unleashed, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, oceans noisier, Olympic Games to end, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, penguin chicks smaller, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, pines decline, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plants lose protein, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears deaf, polar bears drowning, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, rabid bats, radars taken out, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, reindeer endangered, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, seismic activity, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking sheep, shrinking shrine, Sidney Opera House wiped out, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall decrease, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snow thicker, soaring food prices, societal collapse, soil change, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders getting bigger, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid larger, squid population explosion, squid tamed, squirrels reproduce earlier, stick insects, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, terrorists (India), threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tigers eat people, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, toxic seaweed, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, truffles down, tundra plant life boost, turtles crash, turtle feminised, turtles lay earlier, UFO sightings, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, uprooted - 6 million, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, violin decline, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, war between US and Canada, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whale beachings, whales lose weight, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, winds stronger, winds weaker, wine - Australian baked, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine - Scotland best, wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World War 4, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, and Yellow fever.
Now, before someone thinks I made up that list and starts yelling “Cite! Cite!”, a complete list of citations for where each and every one of these has been said to be the “probable” or “likely” or “expected” result of global warming can be found here … and folks wonder why I’m not worried when **GIGObuster who believes in AGW **cites the latest US Army certified possibility of a future disaster that possibly might have an off chance of maybe happening somewhere fifty years from now?
It’s because I’ve been threatened with much worse things from global warming than a flood or a drought or sea level rise — I’ve been threatened with the end of French wine …
The guy could not had pick a more convenient logo.
And one can stop just at his 'how do we know they are lying" page, full of paranoia, conspiracy theories and just plain lying, one should only read the item on the hockey stick that I posted two posts back and check his note on the same on the “Secrecy” section.
Neither. It is just waaay overblown. 1000 deaths? Sounds scary, but out of a population of 300,000,000, not so much. We are all het up about this, but way more people die from the regular flu.
That being said, the best way to avoid this is to be healthy. Eat well, exercise, and wash your hands. And don’t get stressed out over the latest media scare. Stress weakens the immune system too.
More people die of it during the winter. We aren’t “supposed” to have this many deaths so early into a flu season, which is one of the reasons people are scared. If we already have this many deaths, it’s not too much of a leap to think we’re going to end up with a lot more than the typical 40,000 deaths without a massive vaccine campaign executed before a large number people get sick, and the delays in getting the vaccine out coupled with this unheard of early wave of epidemics are making vaccinating people in time to avoid that less likely than anyone wants.
All the links were alive at the time of posting, but such is the nature of the internet that they may not be live now … so go to the second link, duh. I suspect a Google illiterate. My point remains. Threats of what will happen from a few degrees of warming are way, way, way, way overblown.
Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention. Those who think that the garbage posted by GIGObuster who believes in AGW about the hockeystick and the Yamal substitution is true are invited to read about the actual issues at question here and here.
And if you are truly interested in learning about all of the issues involved, there’s a list of posts here. Read’m and weep … of course, GIGObuster who believes in AGW likely won’t read them because he doesn’t like the site. Ummm … opinion of the site ≠ truth value of the contents. Heck, even realclimate says something true once in a while.
But despite his reluctance to read things he doesn’t like, I invite GIGObuster who believes in AGW to read them just the same, and then come back and tell us if he has found a single factual misrepresentation in any of them, and what it is.
Also to Cavashoes: there are no scientists on both sides.
As GIGObuster already stated, the vast majority of climate scientists agree that the global temperature has been increasing. Even the famous so-called skeptic Lindzen, agrees. He just disagrees on how much is due to water vapor and how much is human caused (he may also disagree with the rate of temperature increase, I don’t know).
I don’t think people realize who comprises IPCC.
Here’s what major scientific organizations say:
As noted by the Australian poster (forgot the name, oops) the difference is that, for some bizarre reason, scientists do not have the respect in the US as they do in other industrialized nations. This allows them to be easily confused when contrarian amateurs and groups with serious corporate conflicts of interest dissemble by ‘teaching the controversy’. Many of you know this was started by the tobacco industry decades ago. The idea was to make people disrespect scientists so that they can confuse the public and win political battles. This has crept into our media with their so-called fair and balances nonsense.
On the contrary, if you did not had the biases you have you would notice that what I usually do is check the site and see if they have good information, how do they look is a throwaway comment.
Sure, Steve McIntyre is not reliable.
So my work here is done regarding this pathetic denier.
Not content to find out that he has been following paranoid sites, **Intention **had to resort to cite ClimateAudit, It is like seeing a guy that claims that he is not a creationist say to us that “answers in genesis” is a serious site.
What the "hockey stick affair demonstrated me is:
These deniers do not know what debunked is. No such proclamation came when the National Research Council reported on the research, Nature reported it as “Academy affirms hockey-stick graph”
If it was debunked one wonders how Mann and others still continued (and were allowed to) with the research, and later Mann and colleagues published an updated reconstruction. More robust than the previous research, and now contrarians have resorted to bizarre claims and lies against it.
In essence places like ClimateAudit mislead many when they said that the research was debunked in the past. Instead of admitting that it was not debunked a myth was maintained to this day, and in a demonstration of faith that they accuse the other side of constantly doing they resort to misrepresentations and lies to continue to try to deny that the science still reports that the current warming is over other recent warming periods like the “medieval warm period”
So until I see a sincere and reasonable contrarians there is no need to press the point, Intension already has the answers, he pathetically thinks that undermining a poster in a message board will mean something. Me, I’m content to see him being forced to put some disclaimers to his BS and that others are aware of his sources, he can continue to add childish items to my name for all I care. But in the end, he is just a member of the climate researchers that don’t do anything.
As I predicted, GIGObuster is unwilling to read anything but what he believes … and he has just proven it again. In fact, he doesn’t even think about what he quotes …
To take just one of the issues, he says:
Now think about that most amazing claim for a minute. Both Nature and Science have policies (which they often overlook for their pet scientists) requiring the archiving of data used in studies. Why?
Because science cannot proceed without replication. If you can’t replicate a study, it’s not science. It is garbage masquerading as science, laid out there for credulous folks like GIGO to lap up.
So let’s set aside for the moment the claim that Briffa couldn’t reveal the data for some reason or another. Regardless of what the reason was, if the data can’t be revealed, it makes his study irreproducible … that is to say, anecdotal, and not science.
So GIGO is heartily promoting results that can’t be reproduced, a study that cannot be replicated, as science … but that fits perfectly with him not reading anything but what he believes, and handwaving inconvenient facts away because GIGO who believes in AGW doesn’t believe the people pointing out the facts are reliable …
See, I told you that’s what GIGO would do. Like I said, despite my invitation, he wouldn’t read anything but what he wants to believe. He won’t read both sides and make up his on mind, because … well, for starters, that would require that he have one to make up. Instead, he just reads his side and leaves out the rest. He won’t read the comments from the actual people involved.
It is not worth discussing science with a man who thinks that hidden data should be believed, regardless of the reason it is hidden.
PS - for those who are interested in what Briffa and Steve McIntyre actually said, as opposed to the third hand accounts that GIGO prefers, the issues are well laid out by Steve McIntyre here. Another thing for GIGO not to read, don’t bother him with facts or what the people involved actually said, he prefers what some blogger said about it somewhere sometime. …
Here are the opening paragraphs from that cite …
So from the start, we see that Steve McIntyre absolutely and verifiably did not accuse Briffa of “cherry-picking”, a totally false claim that GIGO stupidly parrots above, simply because GIGO is either too dumb or too prejudiced to read the words of the actual people involved and find out the truth.
Read the cite further, there’s more, it’s all the facts that GIGO doesn’t have the nerve to read …
I invite people who are actually interested in the truth to read the citation.
With Chinese coal-fired power plants being brought up every week I get the impression that not much is being done on China’s part to curb AGW…not that it exists.
Well, the point of the reply was just to deal with the curious meme that goes like “Chinese or Hindus are not worrying about this so we are the only worrywarts”, I still think that they should do more, but I’m a realist. Not much will be done until even more evidence is piled up by 2025.
And I notice that that **Intention **just went into full conspiracy mode again. Sad.
Look, you mendacious sack of filth, show some balls here. If you think Steve McIntyre accused Briffa of “cherry picking” (the deliberate pre-selection of just the data that supports your ideas) as you claim, fucking prove it. Show us where he said it. Trot out the quote. Bring on the citation.
I don’t think you can do that, because Steve never said it, he said the opposite. It is just more of your vicious bullshit. Either grow a pair and show us where Steve said it, or you will stand revealed to everyone as just a parrot, a man who is all too happy to mindlessly repeat the lies of others because you are too dumb to invent your own.
And not a parrot for just anyone, a parrot for other mendacious scumballs of your stripe. You are altogether too willing to repeat some random blogger’s slimy accusation that Steve accused Briffa of “cherry picking” … so here’s your chance to prove me wrong.
Bring on the proof that Steve accused Briffa of “cherry-picking”, or slink back into whatever putrid hole you crawled out of. Your opportunity is here. Put up or shut up.
