# I will be working to defeat Ilhan Omar in her next election, if she's still around
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [March 9, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818 "2019-03-09T04:52:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/21 "2019-03-09T15:23:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> The problem is that she belongs to the DFL and benefits from that membership. Most of us DFLers (and Democrats more broadly) strenuously disagree with you, and her, and in fact we feel she is engaging in slanderous calumnies against a leader we cherish. (Within an arms reach of where I sit now are both Michelle Obama’s biography and Pete Souza’s coffee table book documenting in photographic form the Obamas’ eight years in the White House.) You and she are entitled to your opinions, but are not entitled to continue to be in good standing as high profile members of the party once you voice them.
So any criticism of Obama is off the table?
What about criticism of Bill Clinton for his triangulation or his allegations of sexual impropriety?
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/22 "2019-03-09T15:28:10Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> So any criticism of Obama is off the table?
>
> What about criticism of Bill Clinton for his triangulation or his allegations of sexual impropriety?
I think that stuff is way overdone as well. But this is the full, pure, Chomsky/Zinn attack line, that Obama is essentially a mass murderer with a polished image and smiling face to mask the evil. That’s beyond the pale!
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/23 "2019-03-09T15:28:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I think that stuff is way overdone as well. But this is the full, pure, Chomsky/Zinn attack line, that Obama is essentially a mass murderer with a polished image and smiling face to mask the evil. That’s beyond the pale!
I stand with you against this criticism that Omar did not make!
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/24 "2019-03-09T15:34:00Z")
A bunch of the lefties I know absolutely believe she DID make this criticism, and are frustrated that she didn’t stand her ground.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/26 "2019-03-09T15:38:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> A bunch of the lefties I know absolutely believe she DID make this criticism, and are frustrated that she didn’t stand her ground.
Ooh, what a convincing anecdotal argument!
The other option, of course, is an attempt at engagement and nuanced discussion (and nuanced criticism, which is entirely reasonable if you disagree) on how the party should govern and communicate going forward. That’s what Omar was doing. The Fox Newsification of politics, part of which pushes for everything being reduced to a toddler’s level of simplicity, is very bad for the country, and I’d hope that folks would recognize this and fight against it rather than fall for it over and over again.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/27 "2019-03-09T15:53:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I think that stuff is way overdone as well. But this is the full, pure, Chomsky/Zinn attack line, that Obama is essentially a mass murderer with a polished image and smiling face to mask the evil. That’s beyond the pale!
I disagree with you. I support moving the overton window to the left, which requires criticism of centrist dems for being too conservative.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/28 "2019-03-09T15:59:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I think that stuff is way overdone as well. But this is the full, pure, Chomsky/Zinn attack line, that Obama is essentially a mass murderer with a polished image and smiling face to mask the evil. That’s beyond the pale!
Show us the quote where you think she actually said this.
I agree that she took a swipe at Obama, but if anything, it was incidental and I don’t think anyone reading her quote, even out of context, would seriously believe that she’s labeling Obama, specifically, as a mass murderer hiding behind a smile. In context, it’s clear that she’s basically saying “Just because previous presidents weren’t assholes like Trump doesn’t mean that they didn’t have destructive policies” and she obviously included Obama among them. But that’s a very far cry from what you’re suggesting above. You _should_ know that.
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/29 "2019-03-09T16:02:12Z")
“Criticism of centrist dems for being too conservative” would be something like complaining that they are too cautious, that their proposed regulations on polluters are weak tea, that kind of thing. Calling them cold-blooded murderers who mask their atrocities with smiling, polished masks is not that. Neither is saying that they are “corrupt”, that the “system is rigged”, etc.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/30 "2019-03-09T16:03:06Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> “Criticism of centrist dems for being too conservative” would be something like complaining that they are too cautious, that their proposed regulations on polluters are weak tea, that kind of thing. Calling them cold-blooded murderers who mask their atrocities with smiling, polished masks is not that.
She didn’t do this. This is where the disagreement lies.
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/31 "2019-03-09T16:04:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> I disagree with you. I support moving the overton window to the left, which requires criticism of centrist dems for being too conservative.
In other words, as long as the party is pure enough for you and that stupid window is moved to the left, you’re fine?
Of course, that pesky business of winning elections and being able to implement policy has to be of less concern than moving the window.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/32 "2019-03-09T16:10:40Z")
> [@dalej42](#):
>
> In other words, as long as the party is pure enough for you and that stupid window is moved to the left, you’re fine?
>
> Of course, that pesky business of winning elections and being able to implement policy has to be of less concern than moving the window.
The GOP has been moving further and further to the right and it hasn’t harmed them in elections.
I value winning elections more than party purity. I would much rather have a conservative democrat win an election than have a liberal democrat lose an election. Joe Manchin is vastly, vastly superior to any republican that WV would’ve given us. And geography plays a role, some parts of the US are more conservative (the south), and some are more liberal (the northeast or west coast). You have to plan accordingly.
However the public are to the left of both political parties on the issues. And politics needs to move left to reflect the will and agenda of the public on issues like income inequality, poverty, health care, taxation, trust busting, etc. Because the democrats keep trying to pass tepid, pro corporate legislation they’re having trouble keeping their base motivated, and rural whites aren’t seeing any economic incentives to vote democratic.
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/33 "2019-03-09T16:12:19Z")
Meanwhile, Trump is still putting kids in cages and Kushner’s got a suitcase full of state secrets he’s willing to give to Saudi Arabia. I can’t believe people are acting like this is important. You don’t have to like what the Congresswoman has said, but it’s hardly a national emergency.
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/34 "2019-03-09T16:20:41Z")
Dale, great post. Enthusiastically cosigned!
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> This is where the disagreement lies.
Indeed it is. I will again note that my lefty friends and family members are interpreting her words the same way I am–the only difference being that they endorse that judgement of Obama. :smack:
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/35 "2019-03-09T16:22:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I will again note that my lefty friends and family members are interpreting her words the same way I am–the only difference being that they endorse that judgement of Obama. :smack:
Or maybe they understand that the criticism is actually pretty nuanced and reasonable, and entirely different from how you’re characterizing it, but aren’t interested in getting into a silly back and forth with you. But it’s an uncited anecdote, and therefore not really worth discussing.
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/36 "2019-03-09T16:32:17Z")
You seriously don’t know these kinds of left wingers, who characterize all U.S. presidents of either party in the starkest terms as evil “corporatist” mass murderers? I’m surprised.
ETA: The lefties I’m talking about take their cues from guys like Glenn Greenwald: [Glenn Greenwald defends 'Obama could rape a nun' statement](https://woldcnews.com/965942/critics-say-obama-could-rape-a-nun-and-still-get-support/)
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/37 "2019-03-09T18:17:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> You seriously don’t know these kinds of left wingers, who characterize all U.S. presidents of either party in the starkest terms as evil “corporatist” mass murderers? I’m surprised.
>
> ETA: The lefties I’m talking about take their cues from guys like Glenn Greenwald: [Glenn Greenwald defends 'Obama could rape a nun' statement](https://woldcnews.com/965942/critics-say-obama-could-rape-a-nun-and-still-get-support/)
Those folks are way, way to the left of Omar. Trump and the RNC will lump all these folks together, despite very significant differences (most importantly whether they’re working within the party for change or attacking it from the outside); you shouldn’t be helping them.
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### Author:  [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/38 "2019-03-09T18:23:43Z")
This is the most sober view of Obama I have heard coming from a national Dem. Of course it can’t be tolerated by the party. I have been wondering when the left wing of the party would get around to him.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/39 "2019-03-09T18:56:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#):
>
> This is the most sober view of Obama I have heard coming from a national Dem. Of course it can’t be tolerated by the party. I have been wondering when the left wing of the party would get around to him.
Didn’t you read iiiandyiii’s explanation? She’s not talking about Obama really. You see, Obama didn’t order drone strikes, the system did. Obama didn’t have bad policies, the system did. Even a super talented and well meaning person like Obama couldn’t stop the system from drone striking all over the place. That’s what she meant when she said “hope and change” was a mirage.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/40 "2019-03-09T18:58:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Didn’t you read iiiandyiii’s explanation? She’s not talking about Obama really. You see, Obama didn’t order drone strikes, the system did. Obama didn’t have bad policies, the system did. Even a super talented and well meaning person like Obama couldn’t stop the system from drone striking all over the place. That’s what she meant when she said “hope and change” was a mirage.
Not really. At least that’s not how I interpret what she was saying.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [March 9, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/41 "2019-03-09T19:08:20Z")
That’s because you aren’t interpreting- you’re just making stuff up. Tell me what part of that story led you to think that she meant “even a talented and well meaning politician like Obama was unable to overcome its brokenness.”? Because I don’t see anything in that politico article that could be considered such a compliment.
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