# I will never, ever understand my fellow man. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993 "2006-10-02T16:38:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Coin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Coin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/261 "2006-10-06T03:59:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Sorry, that won’t fly. It says “necessary to the security of **a** free state.” i.e. you can’t have **a** , meaning **any** , free state without w-r-militias. Nobody can rationally argue that the proposition is true. What were the bozos up to that evening? I’ll say a little prayer here that there won’t be a need to link to a definition of the indefinite article. [/QUOTE] They were writing in a different time. I have no doubt that this seemed perfectly reasonable to Americans in a time when our problems with the British were recent history. It doesn`t hold up today, though. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/262 "2006-10-06T05:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=Coin] Necessary to the security of a free state next door to hostile Indians, sure. [/QUOTE] Who were defending their turf… ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/263 "2006-10-06T08:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=Coin] They were writing in a different time. I have no doubt that this seemed perfectly reasonable to Americans in a time when our problems with the British were recent history. [/QUOTE] Look, I was a little harsh there where it really wasn’t merited, but I’d like to elaborate on this next bit: [QUOTE=Coin] It doesn`t hold up today, though. [/QUOTE] Quite. So here’s the question: Why the difficulty in finding the second clause of the 2-A sentence to be similarly antiquated? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/264 "2006-10-06T10:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > **Coin** said: > Can you get a gun out and pointed in the proper direction as quickly as you can turn around and bite? Yes. The reason for practice is to turn the action into a reflex. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/265 "2006-10-06T13:07:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] So here’s the question: Why the difficulty in finding the second clause of the 2-A sentence to be similarly antiquated? [/QUOTE] Because we are a democracy, and there isn’t enough political capital to overturn a constitutional amendment. A lot of Americans love their firearms; you can see some representatives in this thread. Too many to get the super-majority necessary to amend the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/266 "2006-10-06T13:22:00Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Because we are a democracy, and there isn’t enough political capital to overturn a constitutional amendment. A lot of Americans love their firearms; you can see some representatives in this thread. Too many to get the super-majority necessary to amend the constitution. [/QUOTE] Ah, the fallacy of undesirable consequences: ‘We cannot admit the clause is obsolete, because gun control laws might then pass.’ Would you say that is a fair characterisation? Might **Crafter-Man** have something to say on this point? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/267 "2006-10-06T13:59:19Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Might **Crafter-Man** have something to say on this point? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what the question is. Can you rephrase it? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/268 "2006-10-06T15:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Ah, the fallacy of undesirable consequences: ‘We cannot admit the clause is obsolete, because gun control laws might then pass.’ [/QUOTE] The clause is by no means obsolete, so your argument fails from the start. ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/269 "2006-10-06T16:00:19Z")
[QUOTE=Coin] They were writing in a different time. I have no doubt that this seemed perfectly reasonable to Americans in a time when our problems with the British were recent history. It doesn`t hold up today, though. [/QUOTE] Was it General Tojo or Admiral Yamamoto who said “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass”? No regular army is giving the US and British military problems in Iraq right now, but even a poorly organized “militia” is driving us mad, and there are at least 230,000,000 guns in the hands of private persons in this country. Probably not so many RPG’s as the Iraqi’s have. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993/270 "2006-10-06T21:41:13Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] The clause is by no means obsolete, so your argument fails from the start. [/QUOTE] No, you are quite wrong. If you review, you’ll note that **Coin** and I agreed the _first_ clause of the 2-A is obsolete. Now it is the leading, or dominant clause. So the question is: Why is there a difficulty in viewing the following, or subordinate clause as also being obsolete? Take: ‘No animals breathe air, so life will cannot be made to live on land’. This is a sentence put together the same way, in all relevant respects. So, given that the logic of the 2-A is seriously and plainly flawed, why the attachment to it? So far, the only answer _is_ a response that fits within the fallacy of undesirable consequences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-never-ever-understand-my-fellow-man/374993.md?page=13)