# I will pay $10,000... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 1999, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377 "1999-05-28T04:52:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/1 "1999-05-28T04:52:00Z")
I will pay $10,000 to anyone who _successfully_ challenges _any_ US law, local, state, or Federal, on gun control, on 2nd Amendment grounds, plus _all_ legal fees. Put up or shut up! ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/2 "1999-05-28T09:40:00Z")
Are the funds in escrow? * * * Contestant #3 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/3 "1999-05-28T13:59:00Z")
What is a successful challenge? Do you mean you’ll give me $10,000 if I cause a change in gun policy? Or do you mean that I only have to successfully challenge a gun law, meaning that if I contact my governor and tell him that some gun law is inept, I have successfully challenged it? * * * I don’t know who first said “everyone’s a critic,” but I think it’s a really stupid saying. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/4 "1999-05-28T20:41:00Z")
He is making the absurd suggestion that the successful challenger litigate his case to completion. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/5 "1999-05-28T20:46:00Z")
Well, to mount a constitutional challenge in any state court (not to mention one likely to go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court), you’re going to need a lawyer. And if you want to hire a lawyer to take a case of that magnitude and work it to completion, you’d better be offering a heck of a lot more than 10,000 bucks. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 1999, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/6 "1999-05-28T20:53:00Z")
Let’s see… I’ll have to go to law school first… uh… make it a million and I’ll give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/7 "1999-05-29T03:13:00Z")
BigIron, Jodih, and Nickrz: I said I would pay _all_ legal fees. What are you worried about? Hire a lawyer and go to it! Or is all your phony baloney just talk? Put up or shut up! Get a lawyer, successfully challenge ANY US law on gun control on 2nd Amendment grounds, and I will pay your lawyer/legal fees _plus_ $10,000. What are you waiting for? Is your bullshit being called? And where are you, ExTank? Nothing to say? You’re bullshit is challenged; you have believed the NRA’s crap and now I ask you to put up or shut up. Any takers? Ask your pal Rush Limbaugh. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/8 "1999-05-29T03:38:00Z")
Firstly, I doubt there are any laws that could be challenged on Second Ammendment grounds, since if there were, the NRA already would have. Secondly, jdv, chill out or take it to the “Pit”. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/9 "1999-05-29T03:42:00Z")
pathunt: If you have something substantive to say, say so. Otherwise, butt out. Do you accept the challenge or not? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/10 "1999-05-29T04:53:00Z")
Look, man. I agree with you. Really. Try not to get your panties in a wad. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 1999, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/11 "1999-05-29T06:57:00Z")
jdv: United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876). This was the first case in which the Supreme Court had the opportunity to interpret the Second Amendment. The Court recognized that the right of the people to keep and bear arms was a right which existed prior to the Constitution when it stated that such a right “is not a right granted by the Constitution…[n]either is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence.” The indictment in Cruikshank charged, inter alia, a conspiracy by Klansmen to prevent blacks from exercising their civil rights, including the bearing of arms for lawful purposes. The Court held, however, that because the right to keep and bear arms existed independent of the Constitution, and the Second Amendment guaranteed only that the right shall not be infringed by Congress, the federal government had no power to punish a violation of the right by a private individual; rather, citizens had “to look for their protection against any violation by their fellow-citizens” of their right to keep and bear arms to the police power of the state. As none of the interested parties are still alive, you may make your check or m.o. payable to: Monte R. Masters Send it to: REMOVED BY ADMINSTRATOR. PLEASE DO NOT POST ADDRESSES. YOUR HUMBLE TUBA DIVA Thank You, Monte [Note: This message has been edited by TubaDiva] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 1999, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/12 "1999-05-30T14:00:00Z")
jdv: Please ignore my previous post. It is obviously irrelevant to your challenge. I posted it at 2 a.m., on the far side of a 12 pack. I apologize for my drunken idiocy at that time. I’ll be back when (if) I find a proper example of a gun control law successfully challenged on 2nd Amendment grounds. It’s a lot harder, and more interesting, than I thought it would be. The Supreme Court has been sidestepping this issue for a long time. That leaves State and local, wich are more difficult to research. -Monte ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 1999, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/13 "1999-05-30T14:08:00Z")
- - - I will pay $10,000 to anyone who can prove that women and minorities deserve to vote. - MC ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 1999, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/14 "1999-05-30T14:08:00Z")
- - - I will pay $10,000 to anyone who can prove that women and minorities deserve to vote. - MC ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 1999, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/15 "1999-05-30T14:39:00Z")
That was easy. Please see: [http://www.saf.org/EmersonViewOptions.html](http://www.saf.org/EmersonViewOptions.html) Timothy Joe Emerson will probably be pleased to receive your $10,000.00. I’ll let him know how to contact you. -Monte ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 1999, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/16 "1999-05-30T15:59:00Z")
jdv: Timothy Joe Emerson is waiting for his money! Put up or shut up! * * * “[He] beat his fist down upon the table and hurt his hand and became so further enraged… that he beat his fist down upon the table even harder and hurt his hand some more.” – Joseph Heller’s Catch-22 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 1999, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/17 "1999-06-01T15:55:00Z")
jdv: “Put up or shut up!” – jdv ## -Monte “Oxen are slow, but the earth is patient.” – some Chinese guy ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 1999, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/18 "1999-06-02T03:40:00Z")
Gawd, can’t you guys do better than a wife-beater and a stalker? Emerson doesn’t even come close, as his challenge was not to a gun control law, but to the validity of a restraining order. And at that, I doubt it will hold up under appeal–this judge seems to have shaky judgment and a thin hold on the facts. Can’t even cite properly. C’mon guys, you can do better than a dubious restraining order in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 1999, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/19 "1999-06-02T05:29:00Z")
You blithering idiot… You know, when people start offering monetary challenges instead of quoting readily accessible cite, it’s generally because they’ve lost it, and lost their argument as well. I already cited twenty cases of gun control laws being overturned or struck downbased upon Second Amendment constitutionality in the “Second Amendment” thread. Your response: “NRA Propaganda!” You immediately hopped threads and started offering cash if anyone could de-bunk any gun-control law based on Second Amendment constitutionality. Now two people have offered you just that, and your response was to call Mr. Emerson a wife-beater and a stalker, when Judge J. Sutton found no evidence to support such a claim, but granted the restraining order to preclude Mr. Emerson from liquidating any joint marital assests. Then you go on to attack Judge S. Cummings’ leagl acumen, as he dared issue a judicial ruling contravening your politico-socio worldview. Emerson challenged the charges against him because he was arrested for felony possession of a firearm while under a restraining order _first_ on grounds that 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(8) was unconstitutional under art. 1, sec. 8, cl. 3 of The United States Constitution. The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(8) as being constitutional under art. 1 et. al., and declined to dismiss the felony possession charge on those grounds. However… Judge Cummings did his homework, and found substantial precedent to dismiss the indictment on both Second and Fifth Amendment grounds, saying: > [@](#): > > "18 U.S.C. §922(g)(8) is unconstitutional because it allows a state court divorce proceeding, without particularized findings of the threat of future violence, to automatically deprive a citizen of his Second Amendment rights. The statute allows, but does not require, that the restraining order include a finding that the person under the order represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child. 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8)©(i). If the statute only criminalized gun possession based upon court orders with particularized findings of the likelihood of violence, then the statute would not be so offensive, because there would be a reasonable nexus between gun possession and the threat of violence. However, the statute is infirm because it allows one to be subject to federal felony prosecution if the order merely “prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against [an] intimate partner.” and: > [@](#): > > “Emerson also contends that 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8) violates his Fifth Amendment due process rights. He argues that the perfunctory, generic temporary orders issued in his divorce proceedings expose him to federal criminal liability for engaging in otherwise lawful conduct.” Now, before you start jumping up and down and screaming that 18 U.S.C. 922 is not a gun control law, be advised that elements of 18 U.S.C. are comprised of the following: National Firearm Act (1934) Gun Control Act (1968) Firearm Owner’s Protection Act (1986) Brady Handgun Prevention Act (1993) And specifically, 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(8) _is_ a part of Brady Handgun Prevention Act. Cough up the ducks, chucklehead. \_ **ExTank\** _ _“…candy from a baby.”_ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 1999, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377/20 "1999-06-02T19:44:00Z")
Gee, where’d he go? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-pay-10-000/1377.md?page=2)