# I wish conservatives would stop saying the media has a liberal bias **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686 "2008-03-09T03:55:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/21 "2008-03-10T02:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Do you approve of the signs at express checkout lines in supermarkets saying, “10 items or less”? Constant misuse does not make the misuse any less incorrect. [/QUOTE] Well, to be honest, I don’t really care enough to “approve” or “disapprove” of something quite that mundane. But the thing is, it’s not clearly a misuse. The “less/fewer” distinction is simply not a hard and fast rule and never has been; the word “less” has been used to modify plural nouns since before William Shakespeare was born. I agree that “fewer” is a better choice in that particular example, but it’s not really a blatant error. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/22 "2008-03-10T03:31:24Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] That was likely true a long time ago, but it is not today. Most dictionaries, mine included, cite media as being both a plural AND a single noun, and the single noun has a number of definitions. [/quote] Really? Everything [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/media) defines it as a plural. > [@](#): > > By your standards around “media,” you’re contradicting yourself. Originally, “agenda” was a plural, “agendum” the singular, and “agendas” was not a word at all. “Agenda” became a singular simply because it makes sense to use it that way. I’m not applying any personal stndard at all, just telling you how those words are used in English. As you said, the original Latin doesn’t matter. “Agenda” has always been a singular noun in English. “Media” has not been. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/23 "2008-03-10T03:44:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes, that usage is often seen. That doesn’t make it any less incorrect. I do not like the argument that enough people using a word incorrectly makes it ok. For example, I don’t care how many online dictionaries say that it’s ok to use “literally” as an intensifier. It’s not an intensifier and people who use it that way are subliterate and that’s all there is to it. [/QUOTE] While I agree with this position in principle, languages are living and changing. We all have to walk the line between common usage and pedantry. When do common usages become correct language? When the OED says they do? If you find that you’ve been using something wrong, do you immediately try to change what you’ve been saying? For example, the word nauseous used to only mean to cause nausea or disgust, as opposed to feeling nausea. Now [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nauseous) lists this as a proper usage. Don’t know what OED has to say because I’m not subscribed, and for some reason [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) isn’t loading for me right now, but last I checked it had it listed as an incorrect, although it did have a common usage note. And what about email? M-W has this listed as “e-mail,” but I know the “scare hyphen” is eventually going the way of the dodo, as it did in to-morrow. I know I would feel pedantic if I were ever to correct someone for writing “email.” So who’s your authority? Do you ever make any of your own decisions about what’s correct in terms of language? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/24 "2008-03-10T03:57:54Z")
[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed] While I agree with this position in principle, languages are living and changing. We all have to walk the line between common usage and pedantry. When do common usages become correct language? When the OED says they do? If you find that you’ve been using something wrong, do you immediately try to change what you’ve been saying? For example, the word nauseous used to only mean to cause nausea or disgust, as opposed to feeling nausea. Now [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nauseous) lists this as a proper usage. Don’t know what OED has to say because I’m not subscribed, and for some reason [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) isn’t loading for me right now, but last I checked it had it listed as an incorrect, although it did have a common usage note. And what about email? M-W has this listed as “e-mail,” but I know the “scare hyphen” is eventually going the way of the dodo, as it did in to-morrow. I know I would feel pedantic if I were ever to correct someone for writing “email.” So who’s your authority? Do you ever make any of your own decisions about what’s correct in terms of language? [/QUOTE] I understand your point, but by that same token can we _ever_ say that any spelling or usage is wrong? I do concede that “media” has probably passed the point of no return into becoming a singular noun and I’ll concede my objection is pedantic pissing against the wind but I’ll be damned if I’ll surrender the actual definition of the word “literal” (a definition which is useful and _necessary_ to the maintainance of clarity in the language) as a meaningless intensifier just yet. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/25 "2008-03-10T04:11:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I understand your point, but by that same token can we _ever_ say that any spelling or usage is wrong? [/QUOTE] Yup. Language is an ongoing democratic election, and if a spelling or usage doesn’t get enough votes, it’s wrong. When it gets enough votes, it becomes accepted. You may not like the usage that took office, but it’s there nonetheless. (I’m a little less blase about spelling, since it’s manufactured and not organic, but I won’t get into that here.) And no, I couldn’t tell you where the cutoff between accepted and not is, not least because the speakers of a language are far from a monolithic entity, only that it exists. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/26 "2008-03-10T04:19:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes, that usage is often seen. That doesn’t make it any less incorrect. I do not like the argument that enough people using a word incorrectly makes it ok. For example, I don’t care how many online dictionaries say that it’s ok to use “literally” as an intensifier. It’s not an intensifier and people who use it that way are subliterate and that’s all there is to it. [/QUOTE] Of course, that would mean that we find that your opinion may be dismissed out of hand, in that we have you on record abusing [the word “access” as though it were a verb](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8817751&highlight=access#post8817751). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/27 "2008-03-10T04:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Of course, that would mean that we find that your opinion may be dismissed out of hand, in that we have you on record abusing [the word “access” as though it were a verb](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8817751&highlight=access#post8817751). [/QUOTE] Yeah, well, that was a typo. I meant to say “_give_ access.” Yeah, that’s it. Ok, I thought it was acceptable to use it as a verb. At least I didn’t do it with “impact.” ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/28 "2008-03-10T04:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Really? Everything [here](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/media) defines it as a plural. I’m not applying any personal stndard at all, just telling you how those words are used in English. As you said, the original Latin doesn’t matter. “Agenda” has always been a singular noun in English. “Media” has not been. [/QUOTE] Although the OED mentions that “the use of _media_ with singular concord and as a singular form with a plural in _-s_ have both been regarded by some as non-standard and objectionable,” most of its examples show it being used in the singular: > [@Oxford English Dictionary](#): > > 1923 G. SNOW in N. T. Praigg Advertising & Selling 240 Mass media represents the most economical way of getting the story over the new and wider market in the least time. > 1927 Amer. Speech 3 26 It was finally decided to allot a definite media to each member. > 1927 Amer. Speech 3 26 One of the best advertising medias in the middle west. > 1972 Times 19 July 13/6 Miss Allen seems to be under the impression that the media is confined to newspapers. > 1973 ‘R. MACDONALD’ Sleeping Beauty i. 9 ‘You from a media?’ ‘No, I’m just a citizen.’ > 1976 F. ZWEIG New Acquisitive Society I. v. 53 There is insistence on spontaneity and simplicity of life, decrying..the calculating tactics of political parties and medias. > 1982 Times 7 Sept. 4/6 ‘It is important to realise the essential quality of democracy relies on a democratically controlled media,’ he added. > 1994 M. EBON KGB: Death & Rebirth III. xiii. 142 The term ‘Western special services’ had long been used by Soviet medias as a synonym for foreign intelligence agencies. Of course, some of those examples are a little ugly. I wouldn’t condone “medias,” since it’s so ungainly and (more imporantly) this is the first time I’ve ever seen the word used seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/29 "2008-03-10T08:33:16Z")
Isn’t it a hold-over from the Greek: neuter plural nouns can take a singular verb? And BTW each and every member of the media has their own biases - some liberal, some conservative, some libertarian, some communist, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/30 "2008-03-10T10:48:02Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I’m not applying any personal stndard at all, just telling you how those words are used in English. [/QUOTE] But that is now how “media” is used in English. It’s used as a singular now, and as I said, it’s not a new development. You aren’t complaining about the definition of “nice,” which has changed a few times. Well, why not? I’m not advocating a pure “usage makes truth” approach. I’m not going to concede that “supposably” is a word and I’m going to fight the it’s/its thing until the day I die. However, in this case, the adoption of a new definition for “Media” is a good example of English adapting to help speech. “Media” in this context strikes me as being a very logical change to the word that serves a genuine purpose. It is, by necessity, replacing the outdated word “the press” as a noun to describe the fourth estate, since it is now represented by more than just the medium of print. “Media” as a singular has a different definition than “media” as a plural; it refers to an entity in a collective, Gestalt sort of way that “more than one medium” does not. It’s a useful word with a good meaning, and I like it and think it should be viewed as acceptable. It sure beats “MSM.” “Media” as a plural is still a useful word in other contexts. In fact, I’ve never heard “media” used in the singular in any context OTHER than meaning “the fourth estate.” ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/31 "2008-03-10T10:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I understand your point, but by that same token can we _ever_ say that any spelling or usage is wrong? I do concede that “media” has probably passed the point of no return into becoming a singular noun and I’ll concede my objection is pedantic pissing against the wind but I’ll be damned if I’ll surrender the actual definition of the word “literal” (a definition which is useful and _necessary_ to the maintainance of clarity in the language) as a meaningless intensifier just yet. [/QUOTE] Word. Literal bugs the crap out of me, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/32 "2008-03-10T10:50:36Z")
The _world_ has, what some conservatives would describe as, a liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/33 "2008-03-10T10:53:27Z")
(Or in other words, yeah, it bugs me too - but not primarily because of the grammar) ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/34 "2008-03-10T14:45:47Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Do you approve of the signs at express checkout lines in supermarkets saying, “10 items or less”? [/quote] What’s there to disapprove of? > [@](#): > > Constant misuse does not make the misuse any less incorrect. Yeah, actually that _is_ how language changes. Constant misuse eventually becomes a change in meaning. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/35 "2008-03-10T15:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Grammatically, the word “media” is a plural noun. The singular is “medium.” “Agenda” is a singular noun. The plural is “agendas.” There is a word “agendum” which refers to a single item on an agenda, but “agenda” itself is still singular. The Latin word _agenda_, a gerund meaning " [a thing or things] to be done" is plural in _Latin_ (_agendum_ is the singular), but in English, “agenda” is singular. [/quote] So why can’t “media” be singular in English, too? All your arguments justifying “agenda” apply to “media” too. Both are from latin plural roots. Why is one wrong and the other right? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/36 "2008-03-10T15:37:14Z")
Let me add that your reasoning is circular: “media” is is plural because “media” is plural. “Agenda” is singular because “agenda” is singular. Yet both come from plural latin roots. Why, then is it correct to use “agenda” in the singular? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/37 "2008-03-10T15:47:38Z")
Because that’s the way they evolved in English. I’m not making an argument based on Latin, just stating how the words are defined in English. I’m not the one who decided how the words would evolve. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/38 "2008-03-10T17:32:49Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > : > > Originally Posted by CalMeacham > > The Media ARE the Message. > > No: The medium is the message, according to McLuhan, so the media would be several different messages. Similarly, the media (in the US) have conservative biases. > > (They aren’t all the same message, they each have different biases. If they all had the same message and the same bias, they would be the same medium.) Must I explain the concept of _joke_? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/39 "2008-03-10T17:46:37Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Must I explain the concept of _joke_? [/QUOTE] Well, I was just saying that your joke misunderstood McLuhan: if you’d understood him, you’d have said, “The media ARE the messages.” You may feel that I’m nit-picking, but to me a joke based on a quotation works better if it doesn’t misinterpret what the original is saying. (As an aside, I really hate people who quote Juliet’s “Wherefore art thou Romeo?” as if it meant “Where are you Romeo?” That’s the sort of misinterpretation I mean – and **CalMeacham** ’s was rather less egregious than that one.) ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686/40 "2008-03-10T18:19:23Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] The _world_ has, what some conservatives would describe as, a liberal bias. [/QUOTE] More pertinently, “[reality has a well-known liberal bias.](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-869183917758574879)” 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-conservatives-would-stop-saying-the-media-has-a-liberal-bias/440686.md?page=3)