# I wish England still had a monarchy... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 30, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621 "2003-09-30T03:10:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/81 "2003-10-03T12:43:11Z")
GWB could be the mad old king and TB his prince regent ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/82 "2003-10-03T12:56:52Z")
Hey Garius I was trying to be serious here and you have to go spoil it. F’rinstance our Tone is OK and for that matter and for what it’s worth I think Dubya is OK as well. Fair enough they have both made mistakes but you can’t make an omelette without breaking eggs or invading Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/83 "2003-10-03T13:18:47Z")
actually i’m a big TB fan. thats why i suggested it. Its pretty much the relationship that already exists between them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/84 "2003-10-03T13:21:38Z")
…and your thoughts on Dubya? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/85 "2003-10-03T13:25:26Z")
Actually, after WWII there was a secret treaty that made the US President the _actual_ K of E. So that makes W King George VIII. I want to hear some respect from you guys! ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/86 "2003-10-03T13:35:13Z")
'Scuse me old chap but we aint had a King George VII yet, respect my arse, get your facts right Yankee rebel 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/87 "2003-10-03T14:07:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*'Scuse me old chap but we aint had a King George VII yet, respect my arse, get your facts right Yankee rebel 🙂 \*\* Yes, me old china, but if the US President has been king since WWII, then George Sr. would have been George VII (not to mention Kings Franklin I, Harry I (or is that IX?), Dwight I, John II, Lyndon I, Richard IV, Gerald I, James III, Ronald I and William V). ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/88 "2003-10-03T14:08:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by garius \* > \*\*oh and **curly chick** , i actually have two copies of Antonia Frasier’s book (curteousy of an Amazon error) if you want one. \*\* Thanks for the offer **garius**. That’s very kind of you. I have e-mailed you about it. ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/89 "2003-10-03T14:21:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gyrate \* > \*\*Yes, me old china, but if the US President has been king since WWII, then George Sr. would have been George VII (not to mention Kings Franklin I, Harry I (or is that IX?), Dwight I, John II, Lyndon I, Richard IV, Gerald I, James III, Ronald I and William V). \*\* You are forgetting the glorious English revolution of 1946 when we kicked you lot out and installed Clem Attlee on the throne. All your begging to be allowed back into the Commonwealth will do you no good sire, away with you, foul creature I have with me a sword unsheathed, naked… (MacBeth) I think, but on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/90 "2003-10-03T14:35:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*I have with me a sword unsheathed, naked… \*\* Is it really wise to be running around naked with an unsheathed sword? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/91 "2003-10-03T14:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gyrate \* > \*\*Is it really wise to be running around naked with an unsheathed sword? :eek: \*\* you never seen the ads he leaves in phone boxes? FOR XXXX MACBETH FONE SEX CALL SPOGGA ON… ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/92 "2003-10-03T14:43:50Z")
No No you buffoon, an unsheathed sword is classed as a naked one…Ye Gods, do I have to explain EVERYTHING ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/93 "2003-10-03T14:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by garius \* > \*\*FOR XXXX MACBETH FONE SEX CALL SPOGGA ON… \*\* “Say, is that a claymore in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?” > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by spogga_ **No No you buffoon, an unsheathed sword is classed as a naked one…Ye Gods, do I have to explain EVERYTHING** Only until we’re done winding you up. ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/94 "2003-10-03T14:55:01Z")
:smack: ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/95 "2003-10-03T15:01:31Z")
heh. northerners are so easy. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/96 "2003-10-03T15:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*'er 'ighness does 'ave yer actual powers, f’rinstance a government can’t be formed wivout 'er say so. So in effect if yer actual Tone Blair got voted in again next time round and assuming that 'e 'ad pissed of yer 'ighness by not getting 'is round in she could say “bog of you minger” and some other poor bugger would have to do wot Tone does…so there. \*\* She also commands the army. [Here](http://www.centreforcitizenship.org/monarchy/mon2.html) is a site that gives some of the British monarch’s powers. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/97 "2003-10-03T15:16:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **Wexford?** All the evidence is that the massacre happened only because Cromwell lost control of his men in the heat of battle and that it directly contravened his specific orders. The more convincing charge against him is the manner in which he later tried to gloss over what had happened. > [@](#): > > **The use of Irish children as slaves in the West Indies?** As always, it’s not as simple as that. [http://www.irishrootsmagazine.com/about/TheBlackIrish.htm](http://www.irishrootsmagazine.com/about/TheBlackIrish.htm) > [@](#): > > **"to hell or to connaught"?** Er, there is no evidence that Cromwell supported the proposed expulsion of the native population and, as was first pointed out by S. R. Gardiner over a century ago, he may actually have opposed it. Unlike most of his colleagues in the English Parliament, Cromwell had been to Ireland and probably realised just how impractical it would be. The policy was never implemented, the vast majority of the population stayed where they were and any pretence that the policy would ever be implemented was abandoned by Henry Cromwell. As for Drogheda, you’ll never understand what happened until you realise that what the defending governor, Sir Arthur Aston, did - refuse to surrender a town that could not possibly be defended against an attack - seemed as shockingly unethical to everyone in the seventeenth century as the resulting massacre does in the twenty-first. **lightingtool** , if Fraser seems a bit too long (she’s never been the most concise of writers), try the shorter and more recent biographies by Peter Gaunt or Barry Coward. Then read J. C. Davis’s _Oliver Cromwell_ (2000) - it’s not really the book if you don’t know the basics but it does get beyond all the tired old clichés. Easily the best book on him currently in print. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/98 "2003-10-03T17:46:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*Anyway, it’s not an English tradition. The closest we’ve ever come to absolute monarchy was probably under the Tudors, and even they had plenty of religious schisms and political factionalism to cope with … \*\* And really, as I understand it, while they talked a good game when it came to divine right of monarchs and whatnot, in practice I wouldn’t really call their rule absolute. The Stuarts, as you point out, were more into that sort of thing as a practical matter, for all the good it did (indeed, it went badly for pretty much every English monarch who tried to be absolutist). How’s that quote go – “There is no law to depose a tyrant, but there is custom, for in England they have always done it” – from a sixteenth-century Scottish source whose name I can’t remember. (At time of writing the outstanding examples were Edward II and Richard II, who later received the posthumous cold comfort of having kickass plays written about them ;)). But mostly (since I’m a literature student, not a historian) I just wanted to say that this is a _great_ thread. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/99 "2003-10-03T17:52:26Z")
DEADLY ACCURATE: Read the site, Well I’ll be buggered!!! I never knew the half of it, she costs us HOW MUCH?? stone me!! ps. I won’t really be buggered, just a figure of speech for those out there who may have designs on a rich handsome, debonair and modest Englishman ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621/100 "2003-10-03T22:11:49Z")
From the people who brought you **Cromwell Crunchies** , it’s [JacoBites](http://www.votejacobites.com/flash/home.php), in three fabulous flavours fit for a king. _It’s a Glorious Revolution in snacking!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wish-england-still-had-a-monarchy/204621.md?page=6)