# I wonder what Hellestal would say to this. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564 "2011-02-16T09:34:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/1 "2011-02-16T09:34:51Z")
We’re sending foreign aid to China CHINA, of all the God damned places on Earth while we can’t even take care of our own homeless. [http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7931816](http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7931816) Sorry, homeless, sorry Nataline Sarskiyan, sorry all the poor in America, but we’ve got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you! :rolleyes: Foreign aid to CHINA while we can’t even take care of our own? WTF. At what point do we as a nation rebel and say enough is enough? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/2 "2011-02-16T10:10:55Z")
Hmmm. About all I recall about **Hellestal** is that he’s the economics guy who every so often rhetorically eviscerates someone for pushing the gold standard. A link would help people understand what if anything is the link between **Hellestal** and the homeless. Nor have you provided a link to the story about China which has so offended you. Nor is there any particular connection to what we do in China and what we do in Fresno. For that matte it mostly isn’t even “we”, since Fresno is mostly going to be a state and city matter while China is going to be a federal one;. All in all not a very good Pit OP. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/3 "2011-02-16T14:43:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > All in all not a very good Pit OP. Agreed. Glancing at his profile, **Hellestal** hasn’t even posted on the topic of economics (and China) in nearly a month. And when he did, it had nothing to do with aid to China – his posts appear to have concerned claims about Chinese currency devaluation – his opinion on _this_ topic isn’t at all clear to me. Further, the US sends aid to lots of countries, and gives less to China than do other developed nations; why focus on aid from the US to China? I think you’ll have to do a bit better than this, **Le Jacquelope**. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/4 "2011-02-16T14:48:53Z")
According to this article, the U.S. gave $68 million to China in 2008 as foreign aid. > **[China Receives $2.5 Billion In Foreign Aid From Countries In Debt To China...](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-just-became-the-worlds-second-most-powerful-economy-but-its-still-receiving-25-billion-in-foreign-aid-2010-9)** This article claims that the U.S. gives $65 million to China in some unnamed years, possibly 2010: > **[China Nabs U.S. Foreign Aid; Kucinich Ambushed by Olive Pit](https://www.newsmax.com/InsiderReport/China-Nabs-US-ForeignAid/2011/01/30/id/384447/)** > > Insider ReportHeadlines (Scroll down for complete stories):1. Rupert Murdoch: Olbermann Is Crazy > 2. MSNBC Ratings Soar After Olbermann s Exit > 3. Sargent Shriver Steadfast Against Abortion > 4. U.S. Giving Foreign Aid to China! > 5. Fox News Wins... Various articles claim that China receives $2.5 billion in foreign aid from various countries, basically more well off ones, per year. So the amount that it gets from the U.S. is about 3% of the total amount that it gets from all countries per year. Also, note that $2.5 billion is about $2 per person for all of China. I can’t find any articles about where this foreign aid money goes to. Perhaps it goes to the poorer areas of the country. There are still a lot of quite poor areas in China. Being the second largest economy doesn’t make China well off. It’s just barely above the level of most third-world nations, with lots of reasonably well off and lots of poor areas. $68 million wouldn’t go very far in any case. This is the sort of money that might build a schoolhouse in a hundred rural villages and equip them with books and such. Can anyone find a citation showing what the foreign aid from the U.S. to China goes for? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/5 "2011-02-16T19:40:36Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > sorry all the poor in America, but we’ve got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you! :rolleyes: > > Foreign aid to CHINA while we can’t even take care of our own? China has way more poor people than we do therefore their problem is of greater importance. Fuck America’s poor. We need to be giving billions of aid to China to hurry up their infrastructure building so they can become the worlds super power. Because we all agree on how crappy and evil America is and how we need to stop interfereing with the rest of the world. I know Der Trihs will agree with me on how crappy and evil America is. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/6 "2011-02-16T20:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > CHINA, of all the God damned places on Earth I know you have trouble grasping this, but China is still a very poor country. I know, I know…you think they have all those juicy manufacturing jobs they ‘stole’ from America, and that this makes it ludicrous for the US to send them aid (you probably feel that they should be sending us aide), but the reality is that the average wage in China is on par with a lot of 3rd world countries…and there are a lot of extremely poor Chinese, especially outside of the cities. > [@](#): > > Sorry, homeless, sorry Nataline Sarskiyan, sorry all the poor in America, but we’ve got some kids way over in China to think about. Sucks to be you! Dude, get some perspective. If Wendell Wagner’s figures are right (and no reason not to believe they aren’t) then we are talking about something around $70 million. That’s not even peanuts…it’s below chump change. If we were giving them $7 billion dollars a year then that would be in the peanuts and chump change range…approximately $70 million?? That’s laughable. > [@](#): > > Foreign aid to CHINA while we can’t even take care of our own? WTF. At what point do we as a nation rebel and say enough is enough? Well, go out and man the barricades, dude. Maybe you can get all those hundreds of millions of like minded Americans who agree with you about tariffs and offshoring to join you there! -XT ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/7 "2011-02-16T20:38:50Z")
Does anyone have a better cite than newsmax or businessinsider that the US gives foreign aid to China? This ([http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1296.pdf](http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1296.pdf) – warning PDF) from here ([http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/foreign\_commerce\_aid/foreign\_aid.html](http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/foreign_commerce_aid/foreign_aid.html)) doesn’t seem to show China at any time back to 2001. I did other Google searches but I couldn’t find any good cites. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/8 "2011-02-16T23:22:41Z")
None of it comes from USAID, so none of it goes to the average poor Chinese. Instead, it’s Economic Support Funds, meaning it pays for what some might call propaganda. From the Congressional Research Service (page 15): [ > [@](#): > > USAID does not have a presence or mission in the People’s Republic of China > (PRC). However, the Peace Corps has been involved in English language and > environmental education in China since 1993, and United States funding primarily > to U.S.-based non-governmental organizations (NGOs) for democracy and Tibet > programs has grown substantially since 2002 (approximately $15 million per year). > China received only Peace Corps assistance prior to 2000. The Consolidated > Appropriations Act for FY2000 provided $1 million for foreign-based NGOs > working in Tibet and authorized ESF for foreign NGOs to promote democracy in > China. For FY2001, the United States extended $28 million to the PRC as > compensation for damages caused by the accidental NATO bombing of the Chinese > Embassy in Belgrade in 1999. Congress has increased its annual appropriation for > democracy, human rights, and rule of law programs in China from $10 million in > 2002 to $23 million in 2006. > > Appropriations for cultural preservation, economic > development, and environmental conservation in Tibetan communities in China have > also grown. In 2004, the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor (DRL) of > the Department of State became the principal administrator of China democracy. > > Major U.S. grantees have included the National Endowment for > Democracy (NED), the Asia Foundation, Temple University (School of Law), the > American Bar Association, and the Bridge Fund (Tibet). In addition, NED provides > grants (approximately $2 million per year since 1999) for programs that promote > human rights, labor rights, electoral and legal reforms, and independent mass media > in China from its annual congressional appropriation. > > Since 2006, Congress has appropriated > Development Assistance (DA) to American > educational institutions for exchange programs > related to democracy, rule of law, and the > environment in China. In 2007, the U.S. > government began funding HIV/AIDS programs > in China. > > The United States continues to impose other > restrictions that were put in place in the > aftermath of the 1989 Tiananmen Square > military crackdown, including “no” votes or > abstentions by U.S. representatives to > international financial institutions regarding > loans to China (except those that meet basic human needs) and a ban on Overseas > Private Investment Corporation (OPIC) programs in the PRC. The Foreign > Operations Appropriations Act for FY2002 (P.L. 107-115) lifted the restrictions > (effective since FY2000) requiring that ESF for China democracy programs be > provided only to NGOs located outside the PRC. However, Tibet programs are still > restricted to NGOs. Congress continues to require that U.S. representatives to > international financial institutions support projects in Tibet only if they do not > encourage the migration and settlement of non-Tibetans (Han Chinese) into Tibet or > the transfer of Tibetan-owned properties to non-Tibetans. ]([http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf](http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31362.pdf)) Long story short: most of it goes to NGOs and aid programs that aim to make China more democratic, and the rest go to cultural preservation and environmental protection. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/9 "2011-02-16T23:27:27Z")
As someone who makes a living working for NGOs and international aid agencies, _and_ as someone who outsources a lot of work to people in the developing world, I cordially invite you to bite my shiny metal ass. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/10 "2011-02-17T00:17:44Z")
I find any pit of Hellestal to be fairly bizarre: he does a wonderful job explaining economic concepts. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/11 "2011-02-17T00:32:44Z")
[QUOTE=Manda JO] I find any pit of Hellestal to be fairly bizarre [/QUOTE] Especially when the OP doesn’t bother to link to whatever in the hell set him off this time… -XT ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/12 "2011-02-17T00:38:18Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Especially when the OP doesn’t bother to link to whatever in the hell set him off this time… > > -XT As far as I can tell it’s random generated. For what ever reason **Hellestal** was the last name he saw, so that goes in, along with the cause de jour, in this case “homelessness” and then a link to something unrelated, along with the obligatory rant against anything Chinese. I assume everyone here is now on his ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/13 "2011-02-17T00:43:15Z")
Yeah, he’s as unstable as a new Microsoft operating system…but twice as entertaining! 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/14 "2011-02-17T02:33:37Z")
What would \*\*Hellestal \*\*say? He’d say you’re an idiot. And he’d be right. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/15 "2011-02-18T23:26:41Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > China has way more poor people than we do therefore their problem is of greater importance. Fuck America’s poor. > > We need to be giving billions of aid to China to hurry up their infrastructure building so they can become the worlds super power. Because we all agree on how crappy and evil America is and how we need to stop interfereing with the rest of the world. I know Der Trihs will agree with me on how crappy and evil America is. That sounds as much like Hellestal, or moreso, than Der Trihs. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/16 "2011-02-18T23:28:13Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > As someone who makes a living working for NGOs and international aid agencies, _and_ as someone who outsources a lot of work to people in the developing world, I cordially invite you to bite my shiny metal ass. And when we run out of jobs to give your developing world people, and our currency collapses as it is in danger of doing, what will you and the developing world do then? Oddly enough hellestal could not think of an answer to that. It’s not a good bet that you will be able to, either. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/17 "2011-02-18T23:38:21Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > And when we run out of jobs to give your developing world people, and our currency collapses as it is in danger of doing, what will you and the developing world do then? …and we come full circle back to offshoring. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/18 "2011-02-18T23:46:22Z")
I don’t think we ever left offshoring. It’s Le JacAssAlope after all. I love the way Le Jac keeps trying to put words in Hellestal’s mouth though. Wonder how he thinks that’s working out for him in this lame ass thread… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/19 "2011-02-18T23:54:36Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > …and we come full circle back to offshoring. Rhythmdvl brought it up. I answered him. Got a problem with that, rashtard? So… when do our jobless and homeless Americans get some foreign aid? Can you answer that? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564/20 "2011-02-18T23:57:15Z")
When will monkeys start flying out of your ass? Can you answer THAT? How about the exact time for the heat death of the Universe? Can you answer THAT? What about the question of when mutant space eagles will invade and start killing off all our rodents??? -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-wonder-what-hellestal-would-say-to-this/571564.md?page=2)