# I would like to apologize to the Jewish people...the rest of you are on a case-by-case basis
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 26, 2014, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675 "2014-06-26T07:18:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/1 "2014-06-26T07:18:24Z")
I’m not sure I should care what you lot think of me, but for the record, I am not an anti-Semite, anti-Jewish, or even generally bigoted.[sup]\*[/sup]
I _am_ tactless, fascinated by absurd conspiracy theory, and tend to “think aloud” more than is cautious. More, “socially incompetent Discordian,” than, “believer in grand conspiracies carried off by easily identifiable minority religious groups.” I am _really_ stupid, though, I’ll cop to that. Or as stupid as a moderately broadly read person with an intelligence in the top percentile of IQ can be expected to be.
I am very rude. I may in fact have an antisocial personality disorder. I don’t entirely care that I am rude. I can be an ass about prioritizing the denotations of words over how it makes somebody feel. I am learning that that is contrary to how much rhetoric is used.
_For example:_ I think a despicable person who is brave should be acknowledged as brave and not branded a coward, that we may understand despicable courage. I believe a pitiable person who has been beaten down doesn’t get to be called “indomitable” just because we feel sorry for them, that we can understand that sometimes the sympathetic really are weak. And because I care immensely about language and semiotics, I am willing to be a giant ass about that.
If I seem scornful of common USA assumptions about the Jews and Israel, well, I’m a pessimist about the Zionist project. I’m not using “Zionist” in some code-word sense, but in its literal sense. I’m afraid that past ethnic arrogance and catastrophic policy mistakes have already set Israel on a path to destruction I wish it were not on. So I make cynical noises.
If I seem to seriously consider the crazy beliefs of “those despicable people” (whomever that is for you), I’m trying to see the world through their eyes. This is a trip. It is sometimes like the Method. It sticks to the brain in ugly ways. But I am smart enough to know that I am 1) smart enough to tell the difference, and 2) smart enough to convince myself of ridiculous things. And I am, basically, a lot more Harry Truman liberal than Adolf Hitler paranoid, when I remember my actual baseline of upbringing and belief.
I am also of 1)German (Pennsylvania Dutch, technically), 2)Anglo-Saxon, 3)some other stuff, and 4)dubious (very dubious, but not improbable) Ashkenazic descent. So, I’m descended from the people everyone thinks are genocidists on one side, & the people who actually were successful genocidists on the other. And I would have been an easy target of the S.A. if I’d been in Central Europe c. 1940–because of an ancestral name which is\* very \*stereotypically Jewish; and a general non-conformist lefty attitude, even when I was young & ignorant, and thought I was a “conservative.”
I don’t remember ever explaining all of this, because honestly, I prefer to be that anonymous guy. And if people think I’m an anti-Semite, I don’t care that much. I’m here to argue, to lose arguments sometimes, sometimes to play devil’s advocate. I’m here to learn some things.
If I drop the mask this much now, it is for two reasons:
1. The only Doper I know in real life is actually a Jewish guy, and I don’t really want him weirded out if he shows up again by me having a reputation as anti-Jewish.
2. I offended **Guin** , who joined not long after I did, and of whom I have always been a bit fond because we both have “guin” in our usernames. I’m not saying that _makes sense._
Now, back to the general snark and assholery, starting with this post’s footnote!
[sup]\*[/sup](Except against right-wing Irish-American Catholics, of course, whom I will never forgive for that “Social Security Trust Fund” scam. But then, I voted for Robin Carnahan once, so I’m not even a good racist there. :p)
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/2 "2014-06-26T07:30:15Z")
I’m not trying to claim some deep kinship with the Jewish people, nor “in-group privileges.” Ye gods[sup]\*[/sup] no.
I mention the whole “Jewish family name” thing by way of explaining that I grew up with a certain sympathy for that point of view, and thus a natural aversion to racism. And yet racism tries to get us anyway, doesn’t it?
Well, not _you,_ lovely liberal person. Probably.
I forgot to add a link to the Oldman thread that I messily hijacked with a hasty post and subsequent politically correct musing. Which is why this thread exists.
[So here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=726810)
[sup]\*[/sup] (Epithet deiberate.)
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/3 "2014-06-26T10:53:39Z")
MODERATOR COMMENT: This doesn’t really belong in ATMB, it’s about you and not the Message Boards, so I’m moving to MPSIMS.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/4 "2014-06-26T10:55:05Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> _For example:_ I think a despicable person who is brave should be acknowledged as brave and not branded a coward, that we may understand despicable courage. I believe a pitiable person who has been beaten down doesn’t get to be called “indomitable” just because we feel sorry for them, that we can understand that sometimes the sympathetic really are weak.
I skimmed over the threads in question and don’t recall these words being bandied about. Can you provide a link for the lazy to where people were called “indomitable” and vice versa “coward”?
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/5 "2014-06-26T11:07:09Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> If I seem scornful of common USA assumptions about the Jews and Israel, well, I’m a pessimist about the Zionist project. I’m not using “Zionist” in some code-word sense, but in its literal sense. **I’m afraid that past ethnic arrogance** and catastrophic policy mistakes have already set Israel on a path to destruction I wish it were not on. So I make cynical noises.[/SIZE]
Ethnic arrogance? Do you have no clue how unpleasant your opinions are? Please, just stop.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/6 "2014-06-26T11:55:20Z")
Thank you for that. The hardest part of apologizing is to admit that you’re a brilliant, well-read iconoclast. You should definitely be acknowledged as brave.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/7 "2014-06-26T12:04:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#):
>
> Thank you for that. The hardest part of apologizing is to admit that you’re a brilliant, well-read iconoclast. You should definitely be acknowledged as brave.
😃
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> And if people think I’m an anti-Semite, I don’t care that much.
If you’re an anti-Semite I don’t care much either.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/8 "2014-06-26T12:15:47Z")
If I can forgive Gary Oldman, I can certainly find it in my heart to forgive you.
But just this one time.
If it happens again… well, let’s just say you’ll never work in this town again.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/9 "2014-06-26T12:56:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> I would like to apologize
but not enough to actually do so.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/10 "2014-06-26T13:10:42Z")
What is this “ethnic arrogance”, **foolsguinea**?
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### Author:  [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/11 "2014-06-26T14:39:23Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> I can be an ass about prioritizing the denotations of words over how it makes somebody feel.
Fascinating. See, I “expect” a “moderately broadly read person with an intelligence in the top percentile of IQ” to be aware of a word’s connotation as well as denotation. Especially if said person thinks _so_ highly of their own brilliance that they need to humblebrag about it in what is ostensibly an apology post.
See,[you cannot claim to care about language and semiotics but ignore an inherent aspect of words.](http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.csun.edu/~bashforth/098_PDF/06Sep15Connotation_Denotation.pdf&sa=U&ei=FyisU8_eNJKyyASluoCQCw&ved=0CAsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGyR2m0KBlu-V6cjB3a1qisOHyCAA)
> [@](#):
>
> _ **Connotation and denotation are not two separate things/signs. They are two aspects/ elements of a sign, and the connotative meanings of a word exist together with the denotative meanings** _.
Word choices matter:
> [@](#):
>
> Diction, an element of style, refers to the words writers use to express ideas.\*\* Words convey more than exact, literal meanings, in which case they “connote” or suggest additional meanings and values not expressed in general dictionary definitions.\*\* Words that “denote” a core meaning are those that are generally used and understood by the users and the audience to represent an object or class of objects, an act, a quality, or an idea. However, because of usage over time, words that denote approximately the same thing may acquire additional meanings, or connotations, that are either positive (meliorative ) or negative (pejorative).
You may dislike that bolded bit, but that doesn’t change reality. And as someone who claims to care about language and semiotics, I would think this would be obvious.
Additionally,
> [@](#):
>
> _For example:_ I think a despicable person who is brave should be acknowledged as brave and not branded a coward, that we may understand despicable courage. I believe a pitiable person who has been beaten down doesn’t get to be called “indomitable” just because we feel sorry for them, that we can understand that sometimes the sympathetic really are weak. And because I care immensely about language and semiotics, I am willing to be a giant ass about that.
Why? If someone has done something utterly wrong (/horrific/evil), stressing they had good qualities too trivializes the horrible actions and their impacts. “Say what you want about Mussolini; at least the trains ran on time!”, anyone? :rolleyes:
- This is Mussolini, not Nazis, so I say this avoids invoking Godwin’s Law. Especially since it’s a pretty common (and stupid) saying.
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### Author:  [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/12 "2014-06-26T15:10:39Z")
I don’t think the Jews who run Hollywood read this board. So there’s really no need to apologize.
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### Author:  [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/13 "2014-06-26T15:38:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#):
>
> Ethnic arrogance? Do you have no clue how unpleasant your opinions are? Please, just stop.
Yeah. Just go away. You’re just making it worse. Much worse. Don’t comment on Israel ever again. Don’t write about Jews. Just . . . go.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/14 "2014-06-26T15:44:46Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#):
>
> I don’t think the Jews who run Hollywood read this board. So there’s really no need to apologize.
That’s what we want you to th… I’ve said too much.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/15 "2014-06-26T15:49:11Z")
Hole…stop…digging.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/16 "2014-06-26T16:20:45Z")
There should be some kind of internet rule that says “the longer an apology is, the less of an apology it is.”
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> I’m not sure I should care what you lot think of me, but for the record, I am not an anti-Semite, anti-Jewish, or even generally bigoted.
If you know you tend to be rude and insensitive and realize you have gone too far this time, this is pretty much the worst possible way to start. You do not have to type every thought that flashes through your head.
> [@](#):
>
> _For example:_ I think a despicable person who is brave should be acknowledged as brave and not branded a coward, that we may understand despicable courage. I believe a pitiable person who has been beaten down doesn’t get to be called “indomitable” just because we feel sorry for them, that we can understand that sometimes the sympathetic really are weak. And because I care immensely about language and semiotics, I am willing to be a giant ass about that.
Way to speak truth to non-power, I guess. The problem is this: I get that you don’t want to sign off on obligatory feel-good statements when they’re not true. The problem is that what you end up doing is saying rude or mean things about powerless people or complimentary things about assholes just because you think you’re required to do so under some kind of linguistic honor code. You are doing yourself no favors if you think that kind of accuracy is more important than basic decency. I realize there’s something of a fine line here, but you can avoid platitudes or boilerplate scorn without being a jerk.
> [@](#):
>
> If I seem scornful of common USA assumptions about the Jews and Israel, well, I’m a pessimist about the Zionist project. I’m not using “Zionist” in some code-word sense, but in its literal sense. I’m afraid that past ethnic arrogance and catastrophic policy mistakes have already set Israel on a path to destruction I wish it were not on. So I make cynical noises.
STOP. Stop… stop. STOP. STOP. You’re apologizing, remember? Whatever the hell you think “ethnic arrogance” is, that shit is not relevant to the matter at hand.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/17 "2014-06-26T17:51:39Z")
As a Jew, I find your opinions to be stupid and embarrassing for you, your non-apology to be feckless and self-serving, your posting this in a “hugs and cuddles” forum like ATMB or MPSIMS rather than in the Pit where it can be responded to openly to be cowardly and both your original posts and your non-apologies indicative of your character.
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### Author:  [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/18 "2014-06-26T17:54:52Z")
I have to say this is the most self-serving, weaselly non-apology I’ve read in a long time. Is **foolsguinea** in politics?
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### Author:  [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/19 "2014-06-26T17:58:20Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#):
>
> I don’t think the Jews who run Hollywood read this board. So there’s really no need to apologize.
But Gary Oldman does!
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### Author:  [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)
#### Post date: [June 26, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-like-to-apologize-to-the-jewish-people-the-rest-of-you-are-on-a-case-by-case-basis/691675/20 "2014-06-26T18:25:24Z")
> [@Fenris](#):
>
> As a Jew, I find your opinions to be stupid and embarrassing for you, your non-apology to be feckless and self-serving, your posting this in a “hugs and cuddles” forum like ATMB or MPSIMS rather than in the Pit where it can be responded to openly to be cowardly and both your original posts and your non-apologies indicative of your character.
What he said.
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