# I would prefer to live in a homogeneous neighbourhood, am I evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605 "2009-04-01T18:36:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/41 "2009-04-02T18:49:51Z")
I never gave a second thought to whether the right kind of person moved next door. I judge them on what kind of neighbors they are. They start with a blank slate and they determine whether they are good neighbors and good people by their deeds. Wanting all your neighbors to look like you is racist. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/42 "2009-04-02T18:59:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What do you mean “you people?” :mad: > > 😉 What do \*you \*mean, “you people?” Sorry, couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/43 "2009-04-02T20:08:29Z")
> [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](#): > > That is a good point, but where have you seen a diverse affluent suburban neighborhood (bonus points for actual names and locations)? When I said homogeneous I meant the houses looking the same, the lawns being well trimmed, a sort of strength giving and inspirational conformity. The inhabitants of the houses can be from wherever, but usually they are not. Folsom, CA. The newer parts. Gold River, CA (a sort of suburb of Rancho Cordova, CA, which they avoid as much as possible). Lots of the same socioeconomic class, and quite a bit of diversity. Depressingly nice lawns. I can probably keep going. Life is not TV. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/44 "2009-04-02T23:41:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If, and you’ll note I did say _if_, the decision is based on preferring one race over another, how isn’t it racist? Doesn’t it involve judging people based on skin color? : How’s that affirmative action and quota thing going these days? Or does that standard just apply to housing choices? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/45 "2009-04-02T23:46:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > How’s that affirmative action and quota thing going these days? > > Or does that standard just apply to housing choices? We get it, man, you think racism’s over and white people are getting screwed. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/46 "2009-04-03T16:46:35Z")
> [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](#): > > By familiar I mean I’ve seen them around the place, I prefer not to have too many strangers wondering around my house. They can be any ethnicity/nationality but there can’t be a stream of strangers constantly passing through, that’s why major cities are right out for me. Towns/small cities with major universities often have neighborhoods like this – relatively high ethnic diversity, but quiet houses and generally well-kept lawns. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/47 "2009-04-03T18:07:06Z")
> [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](#): > > That is a good point, but where have you seen a diverse affluent suburban neighborhood (bonus points for actual names and locations)? When I said homogeneous I meant the houses looking the same, the lawns being well trimmed, a sort of strength giving and inspirational conformity. The inhabitants of the houses can be from wherever, but usually they are not. If this is what you mean, I don’t think it sounds evil. It sounds like you want to know what to expect from your surroundings and that you derive comfort from things being in their place and predictable. It sounds like you accept that this could come from any kind of person. It doesn’t mean you can’t seek out exciting diversions and surprises when you choose to, but that you like things to be as expected when you come home. I can see that perspective. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/48 "2009-04-03T18:35:52Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Maybe we’ve evolved to be comfortable with that, and uncomfortable with too much “diversity”? There probably is an evolutionary imperative to regard anything too different as a potential threat. I am also a young white professional and while truth be told, I’d rather be around my own kind. But every now and then I get sick of all the interchangeable preppy, J Crew wearing, same conversation having, acountofinlawtechs I typically encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/49 "2009-04-03T18:43:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If, and you’ll note I did say _if_, the decision is based on preferring one race over another, how isn’t it racist? Doesn’t it involve judging people based on skin color? It sure sounds like a categorical pre-judgment to me, which is why I said it sounds prejudiced. Skin color? What did the OP say about skin color? Here at the Dope I’ve been told that Jewish is a race. Irish is a race. Polish is a race. That white kids raised in a black community get to “self-identify” as black. So I’m not sure that skin color has anything to do with it. But say it does. Preferring x over y is not even close to saying that y is bad. It’s simply expressing a preference, not a judgment. In my home town there is a traditionally black university that has some civil rights history. Even today, the student body is predominately black. Many students attend for that very reason; so that they will be spending time in a culture that is familiar and comfortable. Are they all racists? > [@](#): > > Seriously though, yes, this kind of thing can be racist. I’m sure you’ve heard of “steering,” the results of which are all over Long Island, where I grew up. If you haven’t, it’s the practice by real estate agencies of refusing to sell houses in certain areas to minorities, segregating them from the nice white folks who want to be with their own kind. Is anyone oppressed by this? Maybe, maybe not. It has “separate but equal” written all over it. Then again, people are still getting homes - just not the ones they want, if they had the bad taste of wanting to live near the white people, where the money and the best schools probably are. This kind of thing still goes on, although not as much as it used to, and the result is that Long Island is very heavily segregated in some places. I read once that I lived around the most segregated suburbs in the country. You might see where I regard this as a negative. And if the OP had asked about this, you might have had a point. But he is not steering anyone anywhere. He is not preventing anyone from buying real estate. He is simply choosing to live in a heterogeneous community. Kind of like all those racists in Chinatown. > [@](#): > > Nobody’s oppressed, harmed and so on if I go home blog about how much I hate black people either, but you’d still correctly say I was a racist if I did it. Actually, I would argue that if no one is harmed, there is no racism. At least in any real world sense. That’s kind of my point. If the term “racism” covers the gamut from murder and torture to thinking bad thoughts, it ceases to have any useful meaning. > [@](#): > > Good. So? See above. Racism is a vile, nasty thing that has been responsible for countless evil acts in this world. To now make it a thought crime is simply ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/50 "2009-04-03T18:52:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Skin color? What did the OP say about skin color? He said “I resolve that such wishes do not make me racist or evil,” so obviously, he felt some people could accuse him of racism for wanting to live in a homogenous neighborhood. I asked him what he meant by homogenous, and said that under certain conditions, meaning _if_ he meant homogenous racially, then yes, that could be racist. He said that’s not what he meant, as “They can be any ethnicity/nationality.” So I considered the subject closed. > [@](#): > > In my home town there is a traditionally black university that has some civil rights history. Even today, the student body is predominately black. Many students attend for that very reason; so that they will be spending time in a culture that is familiar and comfortable. Are they all racists? No. > [@](#): > > And if the OP had asked about this He raised the issue. > [@](#): > > He is simply choosing to live in a heterogeneous community. Kind of like all those racists in Chinatown. No, the OP (I thought) implied he was seeking a _homo_genous, as opposed to heterogenous, community, so I asked for clarification. He then said that’s not what he meant. > [@](#): > > To now make it a thought crime is simply ridiculous. Right. I shouldn’t have called the OP a racist and threatened him with legal action. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/51 "2009-04-03T19:05:08Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Folsom, CA. The newer parts. > > Gold River, CA (a sort of suburb of Rancho Cordova, CA, which they avoid as much as possible). Lots of the same socioeconomic class, and quite a bit of diversity. Depressingly nice lawns. > > I can probably keep going. > > Life is not TV. Crap! The place where I grew up - Central Jersey, and where my sister lived and started her family have now been mentioned in this thread as examples of where the OP can live out his/her fantasy life. Me, by time I was 14 I resoled to find new experiences and new kinds of people every day. In the end I could have done better (and I still have that promise to myself), but I could have done a LOT worse. I felt that if I was going to live my life like that, then I pretty much had all the experiences I was ever going to have before I was done with high school. At family gatherings, it is MY stories of life that people gather around to hear (although my younger brother, now in Manhattan, is doing a good job of catching up I think!) ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/52 "2009-04-03T20:32:22Z")
Call me boring. I’d much rather, and indeed do, live with people who are of a similary socio-economic background as I am. Less to do with race and more to do with financial standing. Put another way, I’d rather live next to a black doctor with a substantial income than a blue-collar white person. Call me elitist as well if you will but that’s just my preference. ---
**Author:** ![santosvega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@santosvega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/santosvega)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/53 "2009-04-03T23:40:41Z")
[QUOTE] [/Call me elitist as well if you will but that’s just my preference.] You’re an elitist. But it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I live in a predominately lower-income Mexican neighborhood. I love it. I’m not Mexican but I’m assuredly lower income. I’ve lived in pricier zip-codes but I’d rather be stared at (just for a second) because I look white than stared at because I don’t wear nice clothes. Part of my family is eastern European; when I lived in a Polish neighborhood I loved that I was able to go to a cafe and eat the same food that my dear old Grandma made for me. Hell, I’m a fairly atheist type but I would occasionally go to Catholic Mass in those days because it reminded me where I came from. I think if I were a WASPy type, I’d love the suburbs/exurbs for similar reasons. Practically nobody would rag on a Chinese person for living in Chinatown (as mentioned above). I love going to Chinatown. I love going to the suburbs. I’m always intrigued by the way various people live. It takes all kinds in this crazy world. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/54 "2009-04-04T17:25:20Z")
> [@Adoption of adults. Why is this legal? Was it always?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-of-adults-why-is-this-legal-was-it-always/52630/2): > > No. Why not? They’re making value judgments based on skin color. isn’t that what you said? > [@](#): > > Right. I shouldn’t have called the OP a racist and threatened him with legal action. Right. You didn’t say anyone was racist. You just said a particular behavior was racist. Kind of like when a guy who isn’t gay likes doing gay sex stuff. As far as legal action is concerned, ,\* thoughtcrime\* is a literary reference, not a legal one. I’m guessing you’re in your mid to late twenties, right? To label someone as racist is to make a vile accusation. Simply preferring the company of one’s own kind, no matter how one defines “kind”, is not a racist act. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/55 "2009-04-04T17:48:01Z")
I think it’s only natural to want to be surrounded by people similar to yourself. There’s a reason animals in the wild don’t freely mingle with other animals (obviously an oversimplification but it’s just natural to be around your own kind). There’s also reasons why minorities tend to group together. It’s not a racist issue at all, it’s simply wanting to be around people of similar backgrounds, culture, and moral opinions. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/56 "2009-04-04T18:04:45Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > I think it’s only natural to want to be surrounded by people similar to yourself. There’s a reason animals in the wild don’t freely mingle with other animals (obviously an oversimplification but it’s just natural to be around your own kind). There’s also reasons why minorities tend to group together. It’s not a racist issue at all, it’s simply wanting to be around people of similar backgrounds, culture, and moral opinions. WTF? I live just below all the wonderful Federal lands of the Sierra moutains in California. I am pretty sure that in any given sector there are thousands of animal and plant species living together in harmony. Never have I been on a hike where I noticed that squirrels live here and not here because bobcats were there first. Or that one fish lives on one side of the stream and not the other because some other fish was there. Animals live where they live because they can eat for the most part. Humans have a completely different cognitive sense about where they can live. And we are all humans - to compare some of us to squirrels and others to bears (or any 2 other animals), even falsely, is offensive in the extreme. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/57 "2009-04-04T18:14:03Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > WTF? I live just below all the wonderful Federal lands of the Sierra moutains in California… > [snip] Well of course they all live intertwined with each other, but within each group you don’t see bears living in wolf packs and so on. Congrats on missing the bigger point. And make no mistake about it, humans are still animals. Sure, we’ve evolved to much higher levels but the instincts are very much still there. I know of no one who feels more comfortable living amongst people of completely different races or ethnicities as their own. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/58 "2009-04-04T18:16:29Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > And we are all humans - to compare some of us to squirrels and others to bears (or any 2 other animals), even falsely, is offensive in the extreme. I’m so offended that I’m having a hard time figuring out whether I’m supposed to be a squirrel or a bear so I can decide how offended I am!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/59 "2009-04-04T19:40:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Which ones don’t trim their lawns? Around where my parents live, a very ethnically diverse middle/upper-middle class suburb, it’s Indian immigrants that don’t take care of their lawns. The theory is that back in India, either they had servants take care of whatever lawns or gardens there were, or they lived in houses with only very small patches of groundcover arond them. As for paving the yard, in Buffalo it’s the Italians that will oave over the front yard or plop in huge half-circle driveways that will cover the bulk of permeable surface in the front yard. > [@Maeglin](#): > > The idea of rows of neatly trimmed houses would be a source of crushing despair for me and not inspirational strength through conformity. It takes all kinds to move the world. Really? A well-maintained, stable neighborhood is a source of crushing despair? Please don’t tell me you’re a hipster Buffalonian that things urban grip, deterioration, and general weatherbeaten dereliction is preferable because it’s more “authentic, genuine, and real.” I can understand that a new suburb wth thousands of new-build tract homes can seem soul-crushing. Still, older urban neighborhoods of the past were also considered by the social commentators of the day to be sterile and soulless. Many contemporary essays of New Urbanists criticizing the 'burbs – and I’m a card-carrying member of the CNU, FWIW – are almost identical to articles from the late 1800s to late 1920s critical of “streetcar suburbs”, endless blocks of spec bungalows in Chicago, and so on. Commentary about multi-gabled McMansions today are no different than criticism of frilly Queen Anne homes 110 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605/60 "2009-04-04T19:48:52Z")
I really wish more neighborhoods were racially, ethnically and socioeconomically diverse; such an urban ecosystem, if stable, is far healthier than a demographic monoculture. Still I wonder why its socially acceptable for some groups to self-segregate, but not for others to do the same. Outside of the Sunbelt, Jews (I’m Jewish, FWIW) tend to live in very tight clusters, whether they’re non-practicing or extremely Orthodox. Nobody sees anything wrong with neighborhoods that are dominated by a certain immigrant group; Chinatowns, Koreatowns, and the like. However, if a white person doesn’t like the idea of living in an all-black ghetto, they’re racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-would-prefer-to-live-in-a-homogeneous-neighbourhood-am-i-evil/491605.md?page=4)