# Iambic Pentameter **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 13, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573 "2003-06-13T14:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/1 "2003-06-13T14:45:33Z")
It’s been ages since my freshman year of high school when Fr. Jost taught how to scan for iambic pentameter. And for some reason, a friend of mine was discussing this with me, declaring that Eminem’s “[Lose Yourself](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/loseyourself.html)” is written/sung primarily in iambic pentameter. Can anyone (a) tell me what iambic pentameter and/or (b) if “[Lose Yourself](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/eminem/loseyourself.html)” is indeed in iambic pentameter? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/2 "2003-06-13T14:54:12Z")
An “iamb” is an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable. “Pentameter” is a line of verse containing five metrical feet. Put 'em both together and you’ve got iambic pentameter: verse where each line contains five iambs. Shakespeare wrote in iambic pentameter. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/3 "2003-06-13T15:04:26Z")
da-DA da-DA da-DA da-DA da-DA It should be noted that a lyric or verse can be considered to be in iambic pentameter even though not every single “foot” conforms strictly. Much of Shakespeare’s work was written in i.p., for example. I remember that the perennial theory on the popularity of the i.p. throughout college was that it approximated the human heartbeat. I’m not familiar enough with M&M to tell you if that song is or isn’t i.p. though -j ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/4 "2003-06-13T15:11:58Z")
I wish I knew the answer to your post. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/5 "2003-06-13T15:28:02Z")
Iambic pentameter is stylized, but one reason it was popular among poets (Shakespeare obviously the best known among them) is that it’s not that far away from normal speech. If this was a verbal conversation and I said that last sentence to you, the stresses would have gone like this: It’s NOT that FAR aWAY from NORmal SPEECH. And I didn’t even plan the line to be that way. Iambic pentameter is broken up into lines of five iambs (or ‘feet’), and Lose Yourself really isn’t. So by a strict answer, no, it wouldn’t be. But who wants to be strict? In reality, parts of it do fall into the unstress-stress rhythm, as all speech will from time to time. “You _bet_ter _lose_ your_self_ in _the_ mu_sic_, the _mo_ment.” That sounds pretty natural (except for ‘the music’), and it’s pretty much how Eminem says it. By the way, not all of the stresses are equal, so it’d be acceptable that, say, “lose” would be emphasized more than “the.” However, it crashes and burns in other places. “To _seize_ eve_ry_thing _you_ ev_er_ wan_ted_ One _mo_ment” If it was an attempt at iambic, it’d be pretty awful. You normally stress the first syllable of “every,” not the second. Ditto for “ever” and “wanted.” There’s no reason to stress “you” in this context either, really. (See, that’s the other trick. Iambic pentameter has to be written so that the pattern of stresses doesn’t just mirror speech - it has to make sense, and convey the emotions of the characters and the meaning of the scene. Fitting into an off/on pattern isn’t hard, it’s the latter part that’s the real trick.) So I’m gonna say no, “Lose Yourself” is not in iambic pentameter, and I doubt it was Eminem’s intention to make it so - again, the bits that fit the rhythm are there because that’s how people talk. If it’s gonna be in iambic, it’s got to be ALL that way, and it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/6 "2003-06-16T13:55:16Z")
Not a bump, but a thank you for all that responded. Very much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/7 "2003-06-16T14:52:30Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*However, it crashes and burns in other places. > "To seize eve_ry_thing you ev_er\* wan_ted_ > One _mo_ment" > > If it was an attempt at iambic, it’d be pretty awful. You normally stress the first syllable of “every,” not the second. Ditto for “ever” and “wanted.” There’s no reason to stress “you” in this context either, really.\*\* One solution to that is to drop a syllable somewhere–metric feet are not always perfect–but another is to augment “everybody” so that it’s four syllables, a not uncommon phrasing in songs. Then, you’d have: “To _seize_ e_ver_ry_thing_ you _ev_er _wan_ted _One_ mo_ment_” and that works. I’ll have to go and play it to see, I can’t hear it right now for sure. It’s bound to be close, the sing-song beat is going to end up iambs or trochees, depending on when you start. And pentameter is just a count too. ---
**Author:** ![daniel801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@daniel801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daniel801)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/8 "2003-06-16T18:23:09Z")
Nitpick: Actually, the lyrics you cite are only the narrative opening to the actual song. The song really starts with “His palms are sweaty…” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/9 "2003-06-16T19:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\* > "You better lose your_self\* in _the_ mu_sic_, the _mo_ment." > That sounds pretty natural (except for ‘the music’), and it’s pretty much how Eminem says it. By the way, not all of the stresses are equal, so it’d be acceptable that, say, “lose” would be emphasized more than “the.” > \*\* That’s not quite how I’d scan the line. “The” is definitely unstressed, and “Mu” in “music” is stressed, with the second syllable weak. Iambic pentameter is almost never regular, anyway. Anapests, trochees, extra syllables at the end and the such are regularly thrown in. One should never read a line of iambic pentameter in such a way as to twist around the natural accents of speech in order to fit a set rhythmic blueprint. That said, ain’t no way this is iambic pentameter. I can’t think of any pop song that could be analyzed as pentameter. The reason is straightforward. Metrical divisions in pop music are based usually on four or three. Fitting four or three accents in a bar of four-four pop music is natural. Five is odd, unless you stick the fifth accented beat on the first beat of the second measure of a song. Check out the classic songs: ROW, ROW, ROW your BOAT GENTly DOWN the STREAM MERRily MERRily MERRily MERRily LIFE is BUT a DREAM Tetrameter, trimeter, tetrameter, trimeter. And, as you’ll notice, this is not accentual-syllabic meter, but just accentual meter. It makes little sense to analyze this in terms of iambic or trochaic. Most music works this way. The feet are variable, but the accentual pattern stays the same. But if you do make the feet iambic, then this 4-3-4-3 pattern is what’s known as “common meter” or “hymnal meter” which also lends itself well to song. Check out Burn’s “My love is like a red, red rose” or any of Emily Dickinson’s poetry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/10 "2003-06-16T19:06:13Z")
Off to Cafe Society. **DrMatrix** - GQ Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/11 "2003-06-16T20:00:13Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s not quite how I’d scan the line. “The” is definitely unstressed, and “Mu” in “music” is stressed, with the second syllable weak. Ezactly. If you just scan it, I think it’d go the way I proposed. But I know that’s now how Eminem says it, and it wouldn’t sound right if it was done as I scanned it. That’s why I said it’s not iambic pentameter. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/12 "2003-06-17T04:21:49Z")
For the Tolkienites reading this thread: I read an article once that claimed that all of Tom Bombadil’s dialog in the LOTR is written in Iambic Pentameter. Perhaps that was why the weird character is in the story - to give dear Prof. T. the chance to do this. (well, also so Merry could get a special sword from the Barrow-wight). ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/13 "2003-06-17T04:41:59Z")
I just went over several lines of that song with the Hightly Technical Method of Meter Analysis (i.e. counting the beats on my fingers) and much of it loosely fits into iambic pent. Loosely. For example: His PALMS are SWEATy, KNEES weak, ARMS are HEAVy There’s VOmit ON his SWEATer alREADy, mom’s spaGHETTi He’s NERVous, but ON the SURFace he LOOKS calm and READy To DROP BOMBS, but HE keeps ON forGETtin What HE wrote DOWN, the WHOLE crowd GOES so LOUD He OPens his MOUTH, BUT the WORDS won’t com OUT He’s CHOKin, how EVeryBODy’s JOKin NOW The CLOCK’S run OUT, TIME’S up OVer, BLOah! I could have arranged the stressed to fit a more strict iambic pent, but I’m keeping in mind what I remember of the song’s flow (it’s been a while since I listened to it). Shakespeare would, in his plays at least, drop or add a foot here and there, or arrange it so two words slurred together or an unusual word got the stress to emphasize certain words. So “classic” iambic pentameter wasn’t always terribly strict. Many lines of “Lose Yourself” can be read as iambic pent (there are some shorter lines), but as others have pointed out a lot of natural English speech comes out as iambic. Checking syllables instead of stress (I was curious if maybe there were some Alexandrines in there 🙂 ), it seems most of the lines have between 10 and 15 syllables – strict iambic pent would have 10. But in English what really counts is the stresses, not the syllables. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/14 "2003-06-18T10:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Ezactly. If you just scan it, I think it’d go the way I proposed. But I know that’s now how Eminem says it, and it wouldn’t sound right if it was done as I scanned it. That’s why I said it’s not iambic pentameter. \*\* I’m not sure what you’re saying. If you scan it, it _doesn’t_ go the way you propose. Although different people will have slightly different scansions for the same line of verse, even if this were in iambic pentameter, you would not put the stresses where you put them. I may be misunderstanding your post, but even in a perfectly iambic pentameter poem, you don’t always stress every other syllable. And iambic pentameter need not have ten syllables in each line. That is usually the case, and a base rhythm should be established to identify the poem as following this meter, but poets often subtract or add one syllable as need be > [@](#): > > SOMEthing there IS that DOESn’t LOVE a WALL (10) > that SENDS the FROzen GROUND-swell AFTer IT (10) > … > but THEY would HAVE the RABbit OUT of HIding (11) That’s from Robert Frost’s Mending Wall. Notice the first foot in the first line is not an iamb, but a trochee. It would sound godawful if you tried to pronounce it as “some-THING.” Whether stresses are more important than syllables is another issue. Classic anglo-saxon poetry was certainly accentual and not syllabic. But the history of English poetry shows a great dependence on both the accentual and syllabic aspects of prosody. For music, all that really matters in lyrics is the placement of accents, so you won’t really see such strict attention to a constant foot size as you might in poetry. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/15 "2003-06-18T12:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pulykamell \* > \*\*For music, all that really matters in lyrics is the placement of accents, so you won’t really see such strict attention to a constant foot size as you might in poetry. \*\* I wouldn’t accuse Eminem of paying strict attention anyway (unless he wnts to), but rap is closer to the original lyrical poetry idea–a beat that drives the narrative forward. And as the examples of “real” poetry show, constant feet are rare anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/16 "2003-06-18T13:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by well he’s back \* > \*\*For the Tolkienites reading this thread: I read an article once that claimed that all of Tom Bombadil’s dialog in the LOTR is written in Iambic Pentameter. \*\* :dubious: > [@](#): > > Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, > Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. > None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: > His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster. > > Don’t you know my name yet? That’s the only answer. > Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? > But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that’s what I am. > Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; > Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. > He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. > He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. > When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. > He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – > before the Dark Lord came from Outside. > -Tom Bombadil um, no. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/17 "2003-06-18T16:43:28Z")
Bwaha!–we’re giving Eminem Poetry 101 treatment! I love it! Don’t tell anyone–it would shoot his street cred all to hell. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/18 "2003-06-18T17:22:07Z")
A professor gave me a real insight into the use of iambic pentameter in Shakespeare when he compared it to 12 bar blues. The fundamental root of it - de DU de DU de DU de DU de DU - is just the underlying framework. You could play blues entirely based on the framework, and it’ll still be blues, but the real blues masters play with the rhythm around the framework, thus eliciting all sorts of effects and emotions from the disparity between what is expected and what is played. Thus: Now IS the WINter OF our DISconTENT sounds silly. It’s effective because Shakespeare wrote it so that the natural scansion of the words creates a tension between the expected rhythm and the actual rhythm: NOW is the WINter of OUR DISconTENT If you’re acting Shakespeare, the fact that you have to hit five emphases per line can also change which words you emphasise - thus: Made GLORious SUMmer by this SON of YORK would seem to be the natural way to say that line. But there are only four beats. The fifth has to be found somewhere else in the line. I’d guess the line’s meant to be: Made GLORious SUMmer BY this SON of YORK By stressing the word “by”, the nuance of the line is subtly altered (this is also perfectly iambic, compared to the previous line). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/19 "2003-06-18T18:28:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Although different people will have slightly different scansions for the same line of verse, even if this were in iambic pentameter, you would not put the stresses where you put them. I may be misunderstanding your post, but even in a perfectly iambic pentameter poem, you don’t always stress every other syllable. I’m guilty of oversimpifying it, but I was trying to say that Eminem doesn’t not even come close to iambic pentameter in some places, ergo he was probably not trying to write in that style. > [@](#): > > And iambic pentameter need not have ten syllables in each line. That is usually the case, and a base rhythm should be established to identify the poem as following this meter, but poets often subtract or add one syllable as need be. Yes, I know, see above. Although a long line in iambic will be eleven syllables (and sometimes there’s some monkeying to avoid twelve). Some of the lines in _Lose Yourself_ are fifteen syllables or more. ---
**Author:** ![jormundgondir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@jormundgondir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jormundgondir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573/20 "2003-06-18T20:18:25Z")
So since I saw this thread start, I’ve been racking my brain trying to think of popular music which is in fact in iambic pentameter, or at least a pretty close approximation. So far all I’ve come up with are the first line of “The Battle Of New Orleans” (“In 1814 we took a little trip…”) and “Danny Boy”. There surely must be more… I’ve just been thinking of songs, and singing the first line of a Shakespearean sonnet to the tune to see if it scans… Obviously the style doesn’t lend well to music lyrics, but anyone else able to come up with some? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iambic-pentameter/181573.md?page=2)