# ICE plans to deport immigrants on student visas if their schools convert to online classes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 7, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565 "2020-07-07T02:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/62 "2020-07-08T16:19:33Z")
Moreover, it’s a barely legitimate government that’s imposing the rule. They certainly don’t represent the views of all people in the United States, who largely welcome international students at their schools and even if they don’t, often benefit economically from the commerce they generate in the communities where they reside. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/63 "2020-07-08T16:22:31Z")
There’s no law that needs to be changed; we’re protesting a rule - a stupid rule without logic or reason. We fully intend to change the administration which has imposed these kinds of silly rules in November, but none of that prevents us from complaining about it now. People need to know it’s a dumb policy on a number of levels. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/64 "2020-07-08T16:28:06Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > From a whole lot of the post, I see people decrying the law. They don’t want ENFORCEMENT of a law, because they don’t like that law. There is only one way to have it your way, change that law. Yes there are a lot of people who don’t want to enforce that law in some circumstances. Some of those people are the decision makers in ICE because they chose not to enforce it in the spring semester. Their current push to start enforcing it is not because they are dutybound to enforce it whether they personally feel it’s a good idea - it’s because they thought it was a bad idea this spring but have now changed their minds. Changing their minds was a policy decision, and a terrible one. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/65 "2020-07-08T16:49:45Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > This is nothing more than petty viciousness. > [@AK84](#): > > It probably is but, 🤷🏻‍♂️ what can you do. I can’t do anything. ICE and Trump can choose to not enforce this rule during a pandemic. They are choosing differently, to the detriment of our country. Which, interestingly enough, is what this thread is about. It’s a discussion of the people in power making terrible choices that both hurt our economy and put people in danger. Care to discuss Trump putting young people in danger during a pandemic, or hurting our economy by driving foreign money back overseas? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/66 "2020-07-08T17:05:40Z")
APA is about procedure not substantive law which is the argument here. And I suspect a decision to permit sometime to settle affairs or transfer to a new course in a different college will probably satisfy the APA. Unlike almost all other common law countries, US Administrative law is heavily deferential to duly empowered bodies, as I am sure as an immigration paralegal you are only too aware off. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/67 "2020-07-08T17:05:41Z")
Any law that provides for this particular thing to be vaild. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/68 "2020-07-08T17:06:33Z")
Sounds like we need to draft laws that take policy decisions about whether or not to enforce laws off the books. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/69 "2020-07-08T17:08:42Z")
Please cite the law that is not being enforced if the students are allowed to continue their classes. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/70 "2020-07-08T17:09:20Z")
Maybe you should think of reducing the Presidents power so he is more a you know, _President_ and not a god-King? Otherwise you are arguing about how great non-smoking hot Eastern European immigrants are with Donald Trump. It’s like a discussion on celibacy with Don Juan. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/71 "2020-07-08T17:13:28Z")
Are you backing off on your claims about the law now? Can you at least acknowledge that you had misread this thread and were arguing against a position no one was taking? What is your view of the validity of Harvard and MIT’s claims? Now that we’re finally in a legal arena, maybe you can add something on that. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/72 "2020-07-08T17:14:01Z")
Personally I do think the president has way too much power. Arguably the presidency already had way more power than is healthy prior to 9/11, but since then it has skyrocketed upwards. I don’t think pulling it back to the point where discretion in law enforcement or prosecution simply doesn’t exist is practical. When an executive entity (that happens to have too much power as is) chooses to use it to make a bad decision, I’m not going to sit and wait until we have a completely different government structure and power balance to criticize it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/73 "2020-07-08T17:22:48Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Maybe you should think of reducing the Presidents power so he is more a you know, _President_ and not a god-King? Yet another thing on my honey-do list… Conceptually, the rule that “you have to take classes here in order for your Student Visa to be valid” is a sensible rule. If we’re going to be giving Student Visas to people, they should actually need to be here to take the classes they’re signed up for. This choice to enforce the rule today, under the present circumstances, has nothing to do with the overarching idea that people here on Student Visas should actually take classes physically in the USA. It’s about how one chooses to use the powers granted to him. It’s insane to think that our system of government should hamstring the President so that he can’t make choices. He’s supposed to make choices. He’s supposed to be a Leader. We were supposed to elect someone capable of making a decision whether or not to enforce a particular rule during a particular disaster. We don’t need a God King to decide to suspend one specific type of visa enforcement during a pandemic. We need a President. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/74 "2020-07-08T17:26:12Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Conceptually, the rule that “you have to take classes here in order for your Student Visa to be valid” is a sensible rule. If we’re going to be giving Student Visas to people, they should actually need to be here to take the classes they’re signed up for. However that’s not the issue with the rule. Students could be here, in person, and have a semester in which their course load happened to be online and would be in violation of the rule. They don’t need a VISA if they are not in this country, but that shouldn’t prohibit them from taking an online course load in a particular semester, if appropriate. Of course the issue of the pandemic changes the balance (more courses going online), but even prior to the pandemic there were operational issues with the rule. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/75 "2020-07-08T17:46:16Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Unlike almost all other common law countries, US Administrative law is heavily deferential to duly empowered bodies It is. And yet, as I pointed out above, the Trump administration frequently gets its ass handed to it in APA-related cases. And we’re not talking a little bit worse than average; we’re talking about a record in administrative law that is about one-tenth as successful as the historic average. > [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > And if you’re looking for someone who engaged in substantial and consistent ranting about treatment of Muslims in the U.S. after 9/11, there aren’t a ton of posters here with a more solid record than mine. Well, he’s managed to make a few more posts without revisiting that bullshit argument, so maybe he at least recognizes how stupid it was. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/76 "2020-07-08T17:55:30Z")
Is there any chance Trump(through his ICE operatives) is using this as a club to force Universities and Colleges to start back up full swing in the fall, which is something he has been calling for? “If you want to keep those students, you’ll have to do it under my terms.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/77 "2020-07-08T17:55:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Irrelevant. They have the power (until 5 SCOTUS justices say otherwise) > _ **Plus I don’t recall you complaining much when muslim students were being harassed by the FBI and INS after 9/11, again within the Gov rights to do so, but outrage seems selective.** _ If you don’t recall a metric SHIT-TON of complaining, one might be forgiven for suspecting that more than _ **outrage** _ is selective… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/78 "2020-07-08T18:00:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there any chance Trump(through his ICE operatives) is using this as a club to force Universities and Colleges to start back up full swing in the fall, which is something he has been calling for? > “If you want to keep those students, you’ll have to do it under my terms.” I thought he loves the _un_educated. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/79 "2020-07-08T18:01:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > > [@AK84](#): > > > > Irrelevant. They have the power (until 5 SCOTUS justices say otherwise) > > **Plus I don’t recall you complaining much when muslim students were being harassed by the FBI and INS after 9/11** , again within the Gov rights to do so, but outrage seems selective. > > Rather hard to do since **ITD** didn’t join the boards until 2005. And **AK84** didn’t join until 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/80 "2020-07-08T18:02:38Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I thought he loves the _un_ educated. He loves to think he controls the U.S., and he his pushing the narrative that is is time to get back to normal because he fixed the problem. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565/81 "2020-07-08T18:11:14Z")
The thread title gives me a question: If a school actually schedules some minimum number of face-to-face courses, does that exempt it from the provision that (apparently) triggers deportation of immigrants on student visas? Even if a school only offers a few online courses, would an immigrant on a student visa be permitted to remain if their entire course load comprised _ **only** _ those courses? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ice-plans-to-deport-immigrants-on-student-visas-if-their-schools-convert-to-online-classes/914565.md?page=5)