# Iceland Spar (sunstone) question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837 "2014-01-15T00:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/21 "2014-01-16T10:49:50Z")
I hasten to add that “because it’s mine” isn’t that lame a story, provided it’s well written. Ultimately, why does Thorin want to fuck up Smaug, why does the Arkenstone cause such a fuss ? Because fuck everything, it’s _mine_. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/22 "2014-01-16T12:18:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Three ideas spring to my mind : > > The simplest one : “It’s mine”. That’s about it. People can get cranky about private property, dragons moreso. Maybe that stone was part of some ancient being’s treasure trove, got nicked and whoever it belonged to wants it back because fuck everything, it’s _mine_, that’s why. > > A more involved one : IIRC sunstones were used by Vikings for navigation and charting. I draw a blank on the specifics, but they basically were a primitive/magical key to longitude (or was it latitude ? Which is the difficult one ?). Well, say _this one_ and no other in all of Christendom (Because) \*\*is said to not only let one chart the seas of Midgard, but also Jotunheim and Niefelheim and all the other 'heims. \*\* > > The less original one, inspired by **CalMaecham** ’s input: maybe this particular sunstone has the precise albeit forgotten/unique specs (size, cut, width, crystalline composition…) to be able to diffract light between this world and the next, i.e. gaze into it and you get to see ghosts, or Valhalla, or what’s there superimposed with what’s _really_ there, that kind of thing. In the D&Dest of terms, maybe it’s a Gem of True Seeing. That. Is. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/23 "2014-01-16T23:53:28Z")
You’re welcome 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/24 "2014-01-16T23:58:57Z")
Anyone willing to actually read this? It’s a YA clockpunk Norse fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/25 "2014-01-17T03:19:44Z")
I think I would enjoy it! It isn’t something I’m very familiar with, so my opinion wouldn’t be very informed, but perhaps the opinion of someone new to the genre would have some value to you. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/26 "2014-01-17T05:49:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I think I would enjoy it! It isn’t something I’m very familiar with, so my opinion wouldn’t be very informed, but perhaps the opinion of someone new to the genre would have some value to you. I’ll PM it to you when I’m further along. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/27 "2014-01-17T15:25:31Z")
**Morwen** , I would also be interested in reading it and give you my opinion (if the opinion of a non-native speaker of English whose only qualifications for this would be a great love for fantasy and the less-travelled \*punk genres were to be of any value to you, that is 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Politzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ab097/32.png) [@Politzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Politzania)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/28 "2014-01-17T20:00:33Z")
I dabble in steampunk lit & would also be interested in reading it, **Morwen** ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/29 "2014-01-18T08:38:09Z")
Thanks JoseB and Politzania. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/30 "2014-01-18T22:11:52Z")
Mixing cultures and stealing blatantly here, but why would that be a bad thing. Think of classic Celtic art like the Book of Kells at its curly-wurly amazingly intricate best. What if a carved stone, something like the Kensington Rune Stone, but not, was found with similar Celtic design in the middle of somewhere problematic - Chechnya, Palestine, the British Museum. Most people think its just decorative but a few smarties realise that hidden among the writhing calligraphy is a map. Perhaps it needs the unique optical properties of that specific stone, mounted in a particular way [like a jewel headpiece of a Staff of Ra, but not] on a particular day to channel lights onto those intricate loops and swirls, in order to lead you to the greatest treasure of all!!! And the only thing to add could be that the crazed zillionaire this time could be Icelandic, which means most likely a woman with a cracking surname, who makes her fortune selling illegal cod to third world countries, and was wanted by the British for fish crimes during the Cod War. And that’s why there’s also a sexy MI5 agent in pursuit. Good luck with it and I’ll settle for a percentage. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/31 "2014-01-19T09:12:17Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Mixing cultures and stealing blatantly here, but why would that be a bad thing. > > Think of classic Celtic art like the Book of Kells at its curly-wurly amazingly intricate best. What if a carved stone, something like the Kensington Rune Stone, but not, was found with similar Celtic design in the middle of somewhere problematic - Chechnya, Palestine, the British Museum. Most people think its just decorative but a few smarties realise that hidden among the writhing calligraphy is a map. > > Perhaps it needs the unique optical properties of that specific stone, mounted in a particular way [like a jewel headpiece of a Staff of Ra, but not] on a particular day to channel lights onto those intricate loops and swirls, in order to lead you to the greatest treasure of all!!! > > **And the only thing to add could be that the crazed zillionaire this time could be Icelandic, which means most likely a woman with a cracking surname, who makes her fortune selling illegal cod to third world countries, and was wanted by the British for fish crimes during the Cod War. And that’s why there’s also a sexy MI5 agent in pursuit.** > > Good luck with it and I’ll settle for a percentage. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/32 "2014-01-19T12:43:17Z")
The stone itself, while valuable, isn’t the primary target. It’s the stone’s decorative metal base… …which turns out to be made of [Hesperium.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperium) About 9 kg worth. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/33 "2014-01-19T23:22:05Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > The stone itself, while valuable, isn’t the primary target. It’s the stone’s decorative metal base… > > …which turns out to be made of [Hesperium.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperium) About 9 kg worth. Good suggestion thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/34 "2014-01-21T02:53:27Z")
Where does the assumption that the story is urban fantasy come from? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/35 "2014-01-21T06:04:23Z")
When you said the cast was going to “plan and carry out an elaborate heist.” That pretty much set me, at least, to thinking “Mission: Impossible” and modern heist movies. So, if there is a fantasy element, and a modern heist element, that’s Urban Fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/36 "2014-01-21T06:15:58Z")
> [@Morwen Edhelwen](#): > > Where does the assumption that the story is urban fantasy come from? Your initial explanation referred to the principal action as a “heist”, which suggests a caper story. While it’s not universal, caper stories tend to be urban and, if not modern, at least in a setting where a measure of technology is expected. Since you specified that the story is fantasy, people may be putting the two together to get “urban fantasy”. What you seem to be going for is a dungeonpunk caper, which is likely to have technological or technomagical elements: traps and alarms, construct guards, and the like. To be fair, that would not be out of place in an urban fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Garula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Garula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garula)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/37 "2014-01-21T06:54:19Z")
Let me propose an alternative scenario: the MacGuffin isn’t actually especially valuable. Some kind of shadowy manipulator type villain has access to a steady supply of them, but realizes that if he were to sell them openly their value would plummet. So, he starts spreading rumors that the MacGuffin has special properties or whatever. Preferably something that would make people want to own one, like that they improve health or longevity or something like that. These rumors would get people interested in it, but obviously would fall apart upon close investigation. He hires a group of protagonists to steal it. His hope is that when word gets out that the MacGuffin has been the target of an elaborate heist, people will immediately assume the rumors must be true. At that moment, he plans to use back channels to simultaneously unload his supply on as many wealthy collectors as possible at massively inflated prices. By the time everyone realizes the items are worthless, he’ll have already disappeared with a fortune. Basically, the goal of the heist isn’t actually to retrieve the MacGuffin, but rather to convince people that the MacGuffin is WORTH stealing and the protagonists are in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/38 "2014-01-21T09:12:15Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > Let me propose an alternative scenario: the MacGuffin isn’t actually especially valuable. Some kind of shadowy manipulator type villain has access to a steady supply of them, but realizes that if he were to sell them openly their value would plummet. So, he starts spreading rumors that the MacGuffin has special properties or whatever. Preferably something that would make people want to own one, like that they improve health or longevity or something like that. These rumors would get people interested in it, but obviously would fall apart upon close investigation. He hires a group of protagonists to steal it. His hope is that when word gets out that the MacGuffin has been the target of an elaborate heist, people will immediately assume the rumors must be true. At that moment, he plans to use back channels to simultaneously unload his supply on as many wealthy collectors as possible at massively inflated prices. By the time everyone realizes the items are worthless, he’ll have already disappeared with a fortune. > > Basically, the goal of the heist isn’t actually to retrieve the MacGuffin, but rather to convince people that the MacGuffin is WORTH stealing and the protagonists are in the dark. So something like [this?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maltese_Falcon_(novel)) ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/39 "2014-01-22T01:11:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > When you said the cast was going to “plan and carry out an elaborate heist.” That pretty much set me, at least, to thinking “Mission: Impossible” and modern heist movies. So, if there is a fantasy element, and a modern heist element, that’s Urban Fantasy. Oh. OK. It’s actually more of a dungeonpunk Norse caper. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837/40 "2014-01-22T10:57:40Z")
> [@Morwen Edhelwen](#): > > Oh. OK. It’s actually more of a dungeonpunk Norse caper. At the risk of giving you all my good ideas… Why don’t you just have the Goonies reuniting at someone’s 50th birthday? Reminiscing about the good old days inevitably leads to one of them mentioning Iceland Spar. Adventure, excitement and hilarity ensue. Sean Astin and Josh Brolin are bankable actors. If you need to, one of them could be a vampire with ethical issues as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iceland-spar-sunstone-question/678837.md?page=3)