# Icelandic family names ending in "dottir" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460 "2006-10-22T17:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/1 "2006-10-22T17:32:41Z")
Yesterday I saw the movie, _Flags of Our Fathers_ and learned from the end credits that much of it was shot in Iceland. Many, many of the local crew’s names end with “dottir”. What is the derivation/meaning of that? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/2 "2006-10-22T17:34:27Z")
It means ‘daughter’. Magnusson = Magnus’ son, Magnusdottir = Magnus’ daughter. The male child of Magnus Thorsteinsson would be named (whatever first name) Magnusson. Female would be (whatever first name) Magnusdottir. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/3 "2006-10-22T17:35:43Z")
“The daughter of”. “Johansdottir” would be “Johan’s Daughter” Guys get the obligatory - son, like Johansson et al. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/4 "2006-10-22T17:37:13Z")
The Icelandic convention is for the second name to take its form from the fathers name. Eg Magnus’s son Einar is called Einar Magnusson, and his daughter Bjork is called Bjork Magnusdottir. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/5 "2006-10-22T17:57:19Z")
In short, they aren’t “family names” at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/6 "2006-10-22T18:36:52Z")
Thanks. That’s cool. So do the dottirs take the husbands names when they marry, such as Miss Johandottir becomes Mrs. Magnusson? Do the liberated ones keep the “dottir” after marriage? If you meet a girl with the dottir on her name is that pretty certain that she is unmarried? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/7 "2006-10-22T18:46:05Z")
No. In my experience (in my family), women keep their maiden names. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/8 "2006-10-22T18:52:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ignatz] Thanks. That’s cool. So do the dottirs take the husbands names when they marry, such as Miss Johandottir becomes Mrs. Magnusson? Do the liberated ones keep the “dottir” after marriage? If you meet a girl with the dottir on her name is that pretty certain that she is unmarried? [/QUOTE] Mostly, an Icelander is just Bjork or Einar, even in formal situations. The Magnusdottir part is really just genealogy. I’ve heard that the Iceland phone book is listed in first name order, but you’d need someone who’s actually seen one to confirm that, ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/9 "2006-10-22T19:39:22Z")
(Why have I been [answering so many questions about Icelandic names](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7874080&postcount=11) recently?) Check out [this page](http://eng.domsmalaraduneyti.is/information/nr/125) from Iceland’s Ministry of Justice and Ecclesiastical Affairs for information and rules on surnames. It confirms that the phone books go by first name. **Ignatz** , not only does Bjork Johansdottir not normally become Bjork Magnusson when she marries Einar Magnusson, if she’s still living in Iceland, she’s not _allowed_ to. Even if they both use Magnusson while living in another country, when they move back to Iceland, she has to change back. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/10 "2006-10-22T19:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=Ignatz] Thanks. That’s cool. So do the dottirs take the husbands names when they marry, such as Miss Johandottir becomes Mrs. Magnusson? [/quote] No, because they aren’t surnames, they’re patrynomics, and based on the father’s name. A woman’s father doesn’t change when she marries. A few Icelanders have matrynomics - that is, based on the mother’s name. So you might get a Sigrun Ingridsdottir and her brother Magnus would be Magnus Ingridsson but that’s less common. > [@](#): > > If you meet a girl with the dottir on her name is that pretty certain that she is unmarried? No, it’s pretty certain she knows who her father is. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/11 "2006-10-23T03:06:27Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] I’ve heard that the Iceland phone book is listed in first name order, but you’d need someone who’s actually seen one to confirm that, [/QUOTE] This was thirty years ago so things may have changed, but the Reykjavik phone book had the listings in the usual _Lastname, Firstname_ order. Problem was there are only so many names to go around so there were an awful lot of repeats. To help with this, the listing would also include the person’s job after. Of course, that did no good if you (A) Didn’t know your new buddy Olaf is a plumber or (B) Didn’t know what Icelandic for ‘plumber’ is. It was recommended that you carry an address book and get someone’s number when you’re talking to them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/12 "2006-10-23T05:05:04Z")
On a related note, how do the telephone directories work in the Indian state of Punjab. The majority of Punjabis are Sikhs and all Sikh men have the surname Singh (Sikh women all have the surname Kaur). I assume their phonebooks go by first names but can somebody confirm that? And what happens if John Smith moved to Iceland or Punjab? Would he be listed under Smith or John? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/13 "2006-10-23T15:00:43Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] And what happens if John Smith moved to Iceland or Punjab? Would he be listed under Smith or John? [/QUOTE] In Iceland, he’d be under John. A friend of mine lived in Iceland for a time, and he was in the phone book under his first name. As mentioned above, the “surnames” are not really used in Iceland in everyday life. Talking to Einar Jonsson, you call him “Einar”, not “Mr Jonsson”. “Jonsson” is more like a descriptor, a bit more information about Einar. That said, there are a few family names in Iceland. As I recall, families that had adopted a surname before a certain date were allowed to keep them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/14 "2006-10-23T15:12:41Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] On a related note, how do the telephone directories work in the Indian state of Punjab. [/quote] In India, telephone directories are still not reliably complete or up-to-date. The last time I went to Calcutta, the only available telephone directory was about four years old. So most people don’t rely on telephone directories to get phone numbers – for friends and relatives, they just ask them directly. Most people still keep personal address books for their contact information. For businesses, it’s interesting – in Indian cities it’s very common for a business’s signboard to state not only the name of the business, but also its telephone number and full address (including the name of the neighbourhood). > [@](#): > > The majority of Punjabis are Sikhs and all Sikh men have the surname Singh (Sikh women all have the surname Kaur). This is not true. All Sikh men have the name “Singh” _somewhere in their names_, but not necessarily as a family name. Many Sikhs have family names other than “Singh.” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/15 "2006-10-23T15:29:29Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] …As mentioned above, the “surnames” are not really used in Iceland in everyday life. Talking to Einar Jonsson, you call him “Einar”, not “Mr Jonsson”. “Jonsson” is more like a descriptor, a bit more information about Einar… [/QUOTE] So are there Icelandic words for Mister and Missus/Miss/Madam/Ms? Would they be used with the first name alone? How do Icelanders address eachother formally? ---
**Author:** ![marylou722](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@marylou722](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marylou722)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/16 "2015-11-07T20:07:50Z")
I know someone from the U.S. whose last name (maiden name) was Johnson. Since her dad is from Iceland she is now using the last name Jondottir…This started about one year ago. My question is , if it hasn’t legally been changed and this person is still living in the U.S. can they use that name legally? or if signing legal documents would the Johnson name need to be used. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/17 "2015-11-07T20:24:48Z")
> [@marylou722](#): > > I know someone from the U.S. whose last name (maiden name) was Johnson. Since her dad is from Iceland she is now using the last name Jondottir…This started about one year ago. > > My question is , if it hasn’t legally been changed and this person is still living in the U.S. can they use that name legally? or if signing legal documents would the Johnson name need to be used. Generally speaking, in the United States, it is legal to use any name you wish to use, so long as you are not trying to commit fraud. Businesses or government agencies can demand to see proof of your name, and in that case they might be able to insist on your using a name supported by legal documents, such as a birth certificate, passport, or official change of name form. But other than that, you can legally use whatever name you want without “officially” changing your name. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/18 "2015-11-07T20:26:12Z")
> [@marylou722](#): > > I know someone from the U.S. whose last name (maiden name) was Johnson. Since her dad is from Iceland she is now using the last name Jondottir… Is her dad Jon Johnson? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/19 "2015-11-07T21:41:05Z")
So, would Jesus have gone by Josh Josephson or Josh Carpenter? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460/20 "2015-11-07T22:00:14Z")
So is it still like that? Do names still come from the parent? Or has the patronymic sometime in the recent past morphed into a family surname (which I assume it does when they move elsewhere?) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-family-names-ending-in-dottir/377460.md?page=2)