# Icelandic people don't have surnames. How do they distinguish individuals in groups? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875 "2004-10-29T17:09:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/1 "2004-10-29T17:09:20Z")
[per bibliophage’s note in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5426473&postcount=6) > [@](#): > > As you may know, most Icelanders do not have surnames, but patronymics. Hence the last name of women usually ends in -dóttir. Jónsdóttir means “daughter of Jón” so you can be sure Ragnhildur Jónsdóttir’s father’s first name is Jón. > > But a few Icelanders do have surnames, many of which are derived from the male form of the patronymic and end in -son, as in English. Unnur Steinsson’s father was probably not named Stein, but one of her distant ancestors was. > > Unnur, in case you were wondering, is a girl’s name How do they distinguish individuals in large groups? I would imagine there is a well used supply of popular first names, and if eveyyone is “daughter of” (popular name) or “son of” (popular name) how do they avoid mass confusion? ---
**Author:** ![Chairman\_Pow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Chairman\_Pow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chairman_Pow)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/2 "2004-10-29T17:15:54Z")
> [@astro](#): > > How do they distinguish individuals in large groups? I would imagine there is a well used supply of popular first names, and if eveyyone is “daughter of” (popular name) or “son of” (popular name) how do they avoid mass confusion? No helpful information, but trying to read the Icelandic Sagas is about ten times worse than any Russian novel - I think about half of the extensive cast of “The Saga of Gisli” was named “Thorgrim.” ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/3 "2004-10-29T17:19:18Z")
About 10% of Icelanders do have surnames which are not patronymic. It’s a very small country population-wise, and a lot of people probably know the individual being discussed in the case of repeated names, which in any event don’t come up as frequently as you may think. This is especially true as immigration has increased slightly (you can get take out Thai in Reykjavik pretty easily) and some folks are starting to give their children foreign names. Otherwise the (small) phone book has people listed by address/town as well as name and I believe also lists nicknames. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/4 "2004-10-31T06:03:01Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > About 10% of Icelanders do have surnames which are not patronymic. So how’d some of them get surnames? How is this handled legally, anyway? Do you get to decide at birth how to register your kid? ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/5 "2004-10-31T06:41:31Z")
Iceland’s population is only about a quarter of a million - for the entire country. So repeated names are not as much of a problem as they would be in a large city. How many John Smiths do you suppose live in Manhattan alone? The entire country uses a single phone book. Names are grouped by town or city, then alphabetized by first name, then patronymic. Addresses are of course listed, and each person can choose to have his or her profession listed as well. Imagine how much easier it would be if you could look through the New York City phone directory and pick out John Smith the police officer as opposed to the dentist, the delivery van driver, the school teacher, the bellhop, and the guy who works at McDonald’s. (This is done here in Norway too. Though my name is unique in the entire country, my husband has always shared his name with at least one other person in the local phone book. Listing professions neatly eliminates much confusion.) I believe family names or surnames are traditional names attached to a particularly well-known family or to the descendants of a famous person - not something you can choose to have or not have now. Everyone has a patronymic, whether they also have a surname or not. Your patronymic is yours for life; no one changes it when she (or he) gets married. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/6 "2004-10-31T13:12:55Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So how’d some of them get surnames? How is this handled legally, anyway? Do you get to decide at birth how to register your kid? If so, this wouldn’t be at all odd: after all, you get to decide at birth how to register your kid most places–just because tradition says a child will have the same surname as their parent doesn’t mean that Lisa Jones and Bob Smith can’t name their child Jenny Green. It just doesn’t happen very often. That said, I thought that up until recently Iceland was one of the few countires that had laws regarding what you could name your kid, and one of those laws involved having to have an Icelandic first name. I thought I read that here a few years ago, but I can’t find it and I could be making it up. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/7 "2004-10-31T16:51:01Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So how’d some of them get surnames? How is this handled legally, anyway? Do you get to decide at birth how to register your kid? In many cases I imagine immigration from Denmark or elsewhere in Scandinavia in the intervening centuries in between the Viking era and now, by which time non-patronymic surnames developed in continental Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/8 "2004-10-31T20:31:10Z")
So, how many folks are there in Iceland named “Jon Jonsson”? Or substitute some other name, if “Jon” isn’t the most common. How many in the largest city? Is there perhaps a cultural inclination to not give a son the same name as his father, or to give an uncommon name to the child of someone with a common name, so as to partially avoid this problem? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-people-dont-have-surnames-how-do-they-distinguish-individuals-in-groups/271875/9 "2004-10-31T20:47:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, how many folks are there in Iceland named “Jon Jonsson”? Or substitute some other name, if “Jon” isn’t the most common. How many in the largest city? Is there perhaps a cultural inclination to not give a son the same name as his father, or to give an uncommon name to the child of someone with a common name, so as to partially avoid this problem? I don’t know about in Iceland, but my (Icelandic) grandfather was named John Johnson (anglicized). And, my grandmother (also Icelandic) was named Palina Paulson (father named Pal, also anglicized). None of Avi’s children were named John.