# Icelandic politics revisited (and this weeks wow-moment) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626 "2009-01-23T13:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/21 "2009-01-24T20:06:29Z")
To the OP, are you still hoping to emmigrate? ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/22 "2009-01-24T22:33:04Z")
> [@WormTheRed](#): > > The Euro should be big enough to handle most problems; but smaller economies in Eastern Europe (and Iceland obviously) are in for a very hard time and the UK will be very interesting to follow over the next couple of months (in an academic perspective). [This week’s Economist](http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12972641) reported that Iceland was eyeing up other currencies, the Euro amongst others. > [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@jjimm](#): > > > > The UK is teetering on the brink too > > Today I’ve read that the experts have lowered the bond ratings for Portugal, Spain, and Greece, with France likely to go next. What it all means, I can’t say. This Economist [also reported](http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12998185) that the UK was given a AAA rating on Jan 13th, on account of how much money the government still has to throw at the banks should the poo continue to hit the fan. > [@](#): > > Britain’s starting-point was one of relatively low debt, at least compared with the other big G7 economies. Standard & Poor’s, a credit-rating agency, reaffirmed on January 13th Britain’s cherished AAA rating on its sovereign debt. For all the market jitters, the government retains the capacity to finance more bail-outs—which is handy, since it will certainly need to do so. Should that last line be comforting? ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/23 "2009-01-24T22:46:58Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > To the OP, are you still hoping to emmigrate? Oh yeah! As soon as I get a job somewhere else… > [@Pushkin](#): > > [This week’s Economist](http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12972641) reported that Iceland was eyeing up other currencies, the Euro amongst others. Lots of discussions about that, but that will mean that the Big Boys on the Block will loose a lot of power. And we can’t have that happening now, can we? And the EU is soooo evil and will take all our fish away… and did you now they even regulate the size of the tomatos!?! :rolleyes: [QUOTE=Pushkin] This Economist [also reported](http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12998185) that the UK was given a AAA rating on Jan 13th, on account of how much money the government still has to throw at the banks should the poo continue to hit the fan. [/QUOTE] Cool! Iceland sure doesn’t have that… as the [rating agencies](http://www.ministryoffinance.is/government-finance/credit-ratings/) say. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/24 "2009-01-25T07:28:57Z")
WTF? Rioting in Iceland? They seemed so, I don’t know, Nordic-ly reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/25 "2009-01-25T15:05:34Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > WTF? Rioting in Iceland? They seemed so, I don’t know, Nordic-ly reserved. It’s always the quiet ones you have to look out for… ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/26 "2009-01-25T16:40:19Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > WTF? Rioting in Iceland? They seemed so, I don’t know, Nordic-ly reserved. It’s in the blood. All that money we had just soothed us for awhile. Now when it’s gone… beware the Viking rampage 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/27 "2009-01-25T18:21:32Z")
**Worm** , serious question: Do you think that this problem will result in migration away from the city center and more people taking up farming again? ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/28 "2009-01-25T19:43:35Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > **Worm** , serious question: Do you think that this problem will result in migration away from the city center and more people taking up farming again? Quick answer: Nope. Slightly longer answer: The countryside can’t really handle much more people. Most farms are dying, due to the hardships involved with being a farmer on a barren rock. Sure, there is some fertile land here and some of my relatives imagine that Iceland can be self sufficient. But most farmers graze sheep and most of them barely get by. I recall a politician saying last fall that more than half of all farms in Iceland are technically bankrupt. Some people will also move to the smaller communities, back to where they came from and make a living there by working with the fish and the amneties they need. But most people who relocate will move abroad, with Norway being the no. 1 destination. Did that make any sense? ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/29 "2009-01-25T19:55:43Z")
Absolutely. I thought perhaps they would invest in hydroponics to get around the issues of the soil. I know that there are a few commercial farms there that grow on a large scale using this system combined with geothermally heated greenhouses. The interesting thing is that these systems are equally effective for smaller farms, and so long as power is not obscenely expensive there, crops could be grown continuously regardless of the sun. The problem with self sufficiency would be cereal crops which don’t care much for those types of systems. Still, one could produce nearly everything else, including fruits. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/30 "2009-01-25T20:04:16Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Absolutely. I thought perhaps they would invest in hydroponics to get around the issues of the soil. > . . . > Still, one could produce nearly everything else, including fruits. Don’t give them any ideas regarding particularly high-margin crops . . . . **Worm** not to be selfish, but asking just selfishly: just how cheap would visitors find Iceland by this point? ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/31 "2009-01-25T20:15:50Z")
Way cheaper than before, but still not really very cheap. **Richard Parker** went here in December and he describes it really well in this [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10660869&postcount=30). [Quote=Richard Parker] As for “the crunch,” as the recession is referred to in Iceland, we found prices to be comparable to NYC. Inflation has set in a bit, apparently, as tour prices are up about 15% from a few months ago. But obviously everything was still much more affordable than usual. We used credit cards the whole time, which gave a better exchange rate than trading for ISK cash anyway. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/32 "2009-01-25T20:22:28Z")
Actually, it might be a good way out of some of the mess for them. > [@](#): > > ``` > Salisbury and Bugbee believe that the theoretical minimum area > > ``` > > required to support one person is 4 square meters [LB1, p.638] - but > that assumes a harvest index of 100%. If the average harvest index > is taken to be 40%, then we would need 4 / .4 = 10 square meters > per person. Using an estimated 10 square meters to feed each > person leads to the estimate that each acre can support about > 400 people while providing 4 to 8 jobs in agriculture. Thus it > would require only 2500 acres to support 1,000,000 people. That’s a lot of jobs and food cutting WAY back on the number of import crops needed. The average cost of a fully automated greenhouse construction is about 180k per acre. However, once built it produces about 120k a year in salable crops. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/33 "2009-01-25T20:24:27Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Actually, it might be a good way out of some of the mess for them. > > That’s a lot of jobs and food cutting WAY back on the number of import crops needed. > > The average cost of a fully automated greenhouse construction is about 180k per acre. However, once built it produces about 120k a year in salable crops. Oh. You meant hydroponic **food**. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/34 "2009-01-25T20:29:47Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Oh. You meant hydroponic **food**. Why not both? A high quality crop of marijuana would also be of value to a struggling economy. Iceland has such a low crime rate that the few problems weed tourism might bring probably would not put to much strain on the police forces. Beyond that, a properly grown and quality controlled crop would be in high demand to other countries who do not have legislation against it. ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/35 "2009-01-25T20:33:07Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Actually, it might be a good way out of some of the mess for them. > > That’s a lot of jobs and food cutting WAY back on the number of import crops needed. > > The average cost of a fully automated greenhouse construction is about 180k per acre. However, once built it produces about 120k a year in salable crops. Those are way cool numbers, I have to check that out. Not to hijack my own thread any more than necessary 😉 Why isn’t this used more in other places? > [@Acid Lamp](#): > > Why not both? A high quality crop of marijuana would also be of value to a struggling economy. Iceland has such a low crime rate that the few problems weed tourism might bring probably would not put to much strain on the police forces. Beyond that, a properly grown and quality controlled crop would be in high demand to other countries who do not have legislation against it. Don’t see that happening. Iceland really doesn’t have the same view on soft drugs as other places. There’s no way it’ll be legalized. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/36 "2009-01-25T20:45:35Z")
High cost of construction, and it like any other geeky thing, it can get rather technical, requiring some level of training in the staff. Currently, the yields are slightly lower than traditional commercial dirt farms. However, in regions that are hostile to farming, it can provide excellent results. Hydroponics has other problems as well. it depends heavily on uninterrupted power to run the pumps and lights, and in colder climates, heat. Nutrient solution mixing errors, as well as other problems like fungal infections can quickly ruin a crop. Mostly though, it is resistance from traditional farmers, and large agribusiness that has kept it somewhat down in the united states. if a lot of large operations turned to hydroponics, it would put a lot of people out of business. ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/37 "2009-01-25T20:50:42Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > High cost of construction, and it like any other geeky thing, it can get rather technical, requiring some level of training in the staff. > > Currently, the yields are slightly lower than traditional commercial dirt farms. However, in regions that are hostile to farming, it can provide excellent results. Hydroponics has other problems as well. it depends heavily on uninterrupted power to run the pumps and lights, and in colder climates, heat. Nutrient solution mixing errors, as well as other problems like fungal infections can quickly ruin a crop. Mostly though, it is resistance from traditional farmers, and large agribusiness that has kept it somewhat down in the united states. if a lot of large operations turned to hydroponics, it would put a lot of people out of business. Cheap energy, check! Cheap heat, check! Educated people, check! Region hostile to farming, check! We have a complete match 🙂 Now I just need to talk to some people who have some pull. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/38 "2009-01-25T20:51:17Z")
okay. For the example above of feeding a million people, construction would cost 450 million. While that cost would be quickly recouped, that’s a huge chunk of cash to lay down. Those numbers are worst case scenario, but even half that is still a loft of money. Most small countries with struggling economies aren’t going to bother unless they have trouble producing their own crops. That would also produce 15,000 jobs assuming the average of 6 workers per acre. ---
**Author:** ![WormTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bbe5ce/32.png) [@WormTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WormTheRed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/39 "2009-01-25T20:56:47Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > okay. For the example above of feeding a million people, construction would cost 450 million. While that cost would be quickly recouped, that’s a huge chunk of cash to lay down. Those numbers are worst case scenario, but even half that is still a loft of money. Most small countries with struggling economies aren’t going to bother unless they have trouble producing their own crops. So a third of that would be 150 million USD which is about 18,5 billion ISK. That’s 7,5% of the IMF loan, which is a heckuva lot of dough. And I believe your last sentence might be quite suitable for Iceland at the moment ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626/40 "2009-01-25T21:03:03Z")
> [@WormTheRed](#): > > So a third of that would be 150 million USD which is about 18,5 billion ISK. > > That’s 7,5% of the IMF loan, which is a heckuva lot of dough. > > And I believe your last sentence might be quite suitable for Iceland at the moment ☹ True, but the amount of money recouped through self sufficient crop production into the economy would be fantastic. Remember, the numbers we are playing with were allowing for a 40% production capacity. At 90-100% you could theoretically produce enough to export some significant crops to other Scandinavian and northern European countries, saving a fortune on transport costs. This could politically backfire though, as a first world nation would be competing with third world farming nations for market share… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/icelandic-politics-revisited-and-this-weeks-wow-moment/482626.md?page=3)