# "Ich bin kein Berliner!": A stranger tells me off for wanting a doughnut **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 12, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922 "2008-12-12T19:13:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/21 "2008-12-13T16:22:34Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Berliners? Danish? Hamburger? Frankfurter? What is it with naming foods after areas of Europe? And don’t forget Wieners, commonly misspelled in English as Weiner. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/22 "2008-12-13T16:34:03Z")
I’ve met pushy, opinionated, rude, “in my day” types, and people who decide they know what’s best for me. Am I the only person left, who has no problem telling people to mind their own business and shut their mouth? Sure it’s rude. So what? When I want a coffee and a donut (or many donuts) it’s mo one else’s business. I don’t want their life story, their opinions about my eating habits, none of it. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/23 "2008-12-13T16:40:03Z")
> [@Ducktail](#): > > Most of you will probably know this. Kennedy, giving his “Ich bin ein Berliner!” speech, did not. To this day Germans find this very endearing that they had the privilege of witnessing the leader of the free world proclaiming to said free world that he is a jelly doughnut. :eek: I did not know that. Somehow I’ve heard that quote a thousand times, but I didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/24 "2008-12-13T17:43:05Z")
Someone once told me that Berlin residents do not call the jelly doughnut a “Berliner”, although it **is** known by that name elsewhere in Germany. Embarrassed to say I don’t remember (I am half-German) it, does anyone else? Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/25 "2008-12-13T18:28:53Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > Be thankful they haven’t named an American. I think it might be a sausage wrapped in a chocolate chip pancake. In Germany (at least where I lived), they have a [pastry with that name](http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/rezept/0475.jpg). It IS probably the sweetest thing in the bakery. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/26 "2008-12-13T18:40:39Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > :eek: > > I did not know that. Somehow I’ve heard that quote a thousand times, but I didn’t know that. See **dropzone** ’s post no. 11. Germans did not and do not think of Kennedy as having declared that he was a jelly doughnut. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/27 "2008-12-13T18:59:13Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Someone once told me that Berlin residents do not call the jelly doughnut a “Berliner”, although it **is** known by that name elsewhere in Germany. > > Embarrassed to say I don’t remember (I am half-German) it, does anyone else? > > Thanks > > Q Correct. You order Pfannkuchen in Berlin, not a “Berliner”. Also, never order a “Wiener” in Wien (Vienna), nor a “Frankfurter” in Frankfurt…on the other hand, the people in Hamburg have no problem with ordering a hamburger. Did you know in Berlin there is a tradition at New Year’s Eve that people bring out a huge plate of Pfannkuchen and everyone grabs one to eat? One is filled with mustard instead of pudding, and I believe tradition is that that person supposedly has a bad year ahead of them. To the OP: I have met hundreds of Germans like the one you described. Usually, I would meet them in bars and they would hear my American accent (that I was able to get rid of over the years) and decide I needed to hear their opinion on everything from health, politics and world woes. It was also usually someone with a 38 word English vocabulary who wanted to practice their English. Due to copious amounts of alcohol, they would not leave me alone no matter how much I tried to be interested in a book or whatever. My suggestion: Next time just smile and get the hell away. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/28 "2008-12-13T19:03:47Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > See **dropzone** ’s post no. 11. Germans did not and do not think of Kennedy as having declared that he was a jelly doughnut. Ah. Shoulda read the thread. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Influential\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Influential\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Influential_Panda)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/29 "2008-12-13T19:30:21Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > Be thankful they haven’t named an American. I think it might be a sausage wrapped in a chocolate chip pancake. You laugh, but there’s a restaurant in Birmingham, AL that serves exactly this. With a half pound of powdered sugar on top. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/30 "2008-12-13T19:36:26Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Berliners? Danish? Hamburger? Frankfurter? What is it with naming foods after areas of Europe? > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > And don’t forget Wieners, commonly misspelled in English as Weiner. Fun thing about Danishes and Wieners: in Denmark, the flaky pastry with jam is called “Vienna bread” (wienerbrød). And you can add any number of wines and cheeses to the list of foods named after places in Europe. [Gouda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouda#Economy), [Emmentaler](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmental), [Champagne](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne,_France), etc. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/31 "2008-12-13T19:37:27Z")
> [@Influential\_Panda](#): > > You laugh, but there’s a restaurant in Birmingham, AL that serves exactly this. With a half pound of powdered sugar on top. Is it called a Birminghammer? ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/32 "2008-12-13T19:50:42Z")
Thanks, **Dmark** , I noticed your address and see that you sure do know your pastry names.🙂 If I may, I’d like to take the thread in another direction. Not completely **away** from the OP, but related to those Germans who want to talk your ears off about what’s going on with our ecomomy here in the US, about Bush, etc. and kinda make one feel as if one is somehow _representative_ or even somehow _responsible_ for the problems going on here. In my case, I try to be as diplomatic as I can, listen to what is being said (I speak German) and then make some kind of comment which is akin to acknowledging _theirs_ and then usually end my conversation with something like, “But then that’s not exclusively limited to the United States, is it?” If I get a blank look, I take it a step further and mention their own troubles with the Deustche Bank and the CEO who last year got off with a minor slap on the wrist, but I usually don’t have to go that far. Mixed emotions. On the one hand, I can appreciate them being conversant with what’s going on “across the pond” (because it does affect them as well), but on the other, it rankles a bit when all I wanna do is drink a damn **BIER**. 😉 Great thread, and as I said very well-written, **Ducktail**. Q ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/33 "2008-12-13T19:55:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Correct. You order Pfannkuchen in Berlin, not a “Berliner”. > Also, never order a “Wiener” in Wien (Vienna), nor a “Frankfurter” in Frankfurt… Unsurprising… Here in the US, when you’re in Philadelphia, you don’t order a “Philly steak”, and when you’re in Chicago, you don’t order a “Chicago pizza”, and so on. The geographical identifier is only necessary away from the place of origin. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/34 "2008-12-13T20:02:52Z")
Actually, I think the gentleman was just commending you on your healthy meal… ‘Baked goods’ are very much seen as traditional over here, and especially in the older demographics, traditional = good and wholesome, even though it’s generally either too fat or too sweet. What he likely meant when he was talking about the ‘kids these days’ and all the sweets they were eating was pre-packaged, store bought goods – Mars bars and all that new-fangled stuff. > [@devilsknew](#): > > I think he wanted some of your jelly roll… that jelly roll, unh~ > It’s pretty obvious he was wixen und flirten. If he truly had been wichsen, I don’t think the OP would have engaged in any form of conversation. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/35 "2008-12-14T03:27:49Z")
> [@Ducktail](#): > > But the real funny thing? > > The guy was eating a danish. Did he start by eating a Polish and then move west? ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/36 "2008-12-14T03:43:46Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > Be thankful they haven’t named an American. Here a corn dog is an “American dog” and piss-poor, watered-down, ass-flavored coffee is called “American coffee.” ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/37 "2008-12-14T07:29:03Z")
I think you should be spending your parents’ money on sensible footwear for the snow instead of empty calories. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/38 "2008-12-14T14:09:18Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > In Germany (at least where I lived), they have a [pastry with that name](http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/rezept/0475.jpg). It IS probably the sweetest thing in the bakery. Here is the [Wikipedia-link](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerikaner_(Geb%C3%A4ck)) . However, if that is the sweatest thing in your bakery, you’re going to the wrong bakery. What about a _Nussschnecke_ [(Nut roll)](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schnecke_(Geb%C3%A4ck)), [Hahnenkamm,](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahnenkamm_(Geb%C3%A4ck)) [Apfeltasche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puff_pastry), … mmmm. Now I’m hungry. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922/39 "2008-12-14T14:36:29Z")
> [@Ducktail](#): > > Every morning, I get on a bus. I ride the bus into the next village over, whereupon I disembark and get on another bus or a train, depending on the day, and then I go into the city for school. This system usually works very well, except when it snows. For some reason, snow just stumps the internal mechanics of a bus to the point of it not being able to show up within a half an hour of its scheduled arrival time, despite this effect being totally absent on cars, trucks, and other vehicles, which zoom by merrily laughing at me as I stand at the bus stop for an undetermined amount of time in the snow. Please note that this is my first time living in a snowy environment, so I really don’t understand the mechanics of all of this at all. I assume you’re currently in Stuttgart? The first snowfall of the season often seems to stump public transport. Several years ago, during Christmas season, it snowed in the evening and for some inexplicable reason, the whole traffic inside the city of Munich simply crashed - all cars decided to join a big traffic jam that also caught the buses and trams. We waited for more than half an hour before they made announcments that traffic was off. > [@](#): > > Today was a Snow Day. I stood at various bus stops for an hour and ten minutes this morning in the snow in tennis shoes. That’s your basic mistake. Whenever you go outside in the winter, esp. if you’re close to the mountains, you have to dress for a waiting time of 20 min. at the bus stop - thick anorack and warm boots, even if the rest of the day you sit in a heated office (many people have normal shoes at work they then change into). > [@](#): > > Lest you think I was engaging in cannibalism and feasting upon the flesh of the residents of our capital city, a berliner is actually a jelly doughnut. Most of you will probably know this. Kennedy, giving his “Ich bin ein Berliner!” speech, did not. To this day Germans find this very endearing that they had the privilege of witnessing the leader of the free world proclaiming to said free world that he is a jelly doughnut. Every time I order one of these things, the baker in question–and this has happened at several different bakeries over the last few months–notices my American accent and hands me my doughnut with a cheerful “Ich bin ein Berliner!” It was cute the first three times or so. This is very surprising to me. Most Germans, as already been said, don’t know the urban legend, and were moved by the speech too far to consider making fun of JFK. It’s also no grammatical mistake at all, but completly correct. It should also be noted that a Berliner - a non-holed jelly doughnut- is called different names in different parts of Germany: outside Berlin, in north Germany, Berliner, but called properly a Krapfen in Baden-Württemberg! And in Berlin itself, its called “Pfannkuchen” - which means pancake in the rest of the country. Please note that Krapfen are a seasonal food properly, only made and eaten during the Fasching/Karneval season. Some bakeries make and sell them year round, but traditional bakeries only do this between St. Martin (11.11) and Ash Wednesday. So fill up while you have the time! > [@](#): > > At the sugar-and-cream station was standing a portly middle-aged man with enough jewelry to drown him in the bath and a noticeable comb-over. He watched me add copious amounts of sugar to my coffee. I am new to coffee. I only started drinking it since I moved to Germany, and I still need an awful lot of sugar in it to mask the bitterness. Have you tried a different method of coffee? Many people who don’t like the bitterness drink the Italian style, either Espresso or Cappuchino (Espresso lenghtened with milk), because the pressure quickly forces the grounds through, less bitter stuff comes along. You could also try (if you don’t need the coffeeine) drinking cereal coffee (Getreidekaffee, available for children) or malt coffee (Malzkaffee, available for people with stomach problems). Or drink some hot cocoa/chocolate, if you want to warm up. Also, coffee is stronger in Germany than the US watery thing. (Old joke: what does American coffee and sex in a canoe have in common? Both are fucking close to water). > [@](#): > > “Mmhmm.” At this point, I should have waved to the baker and left. I really had no idea what I was getting into. But for some reason, since it’s very rare that anyone strikes up a conversation with me in public (I don’t think I’m especially intimidating…) it didn’t occur to me to flee. So I made a polite noise, which he must have taken to be encouragement. I don’t know how you look or whether you’re male or female, but it’s simply not customary in southern Germany to chat up strangers nilly-willy. People are (stereotypically) dour and hard to get to talk. The Rhineregion natives are easier to talk to and get to know. > [@](#): > > And thirdly, that this is Germany. More specifically, it’s a relatively small, fairly safe city in a country that doesn’t let people get drivers’ licenses until they’re 18 or so and where people are, on the whole, a huge fan of Walking Places. This leads to a population that is to the casual eye much thinner than the average American population, especially among young people. As I said earlier, I’m 115 pounds and a size four, and most of the women my age that I interact with are thinner than I am. But we do have a weight problem in Germany. Kids are getting more obese than 30 years ago. Every third kid is overweight, every fifth kid is obese. And kids getting overweight is a serious problem, both because health problems develop faster for them than for a 30 year old adult who gets a beer gut; and because bad habits developed so early are harder to get rid off. And many Germans think that being better than Americans is standard, not something to be proud off; it’s consdered a problem if we approach American situations. > [@](#): > > So in my panic I decide to go for the Why Do You Hate America? route. “Um, actually, I think young people here are much healthier than in America,” I say. > > “Oh, America!” he says. “I was in New York once. Let me tell you about my trip to New York!” > > My god. Behind him, the baker is laughing at my plight. Snerk. That’s of course the wrong thing to say if you don’t want a lecture… > [@](#): > > It wasn’t until I was halfway down the street that I realized that a guy had just come up to me and complained about the doughnut that _I_ had ordered. I had just been told off, in public, for wanting to eat a doughnut. The guy seemed pretty normal, even if he was sort of stuck in the 70s from the looks of it–he looked well-groomed and put together and all, not as though he was mentally ill or anything. > > But the real funny thing? > > The guy was eating a danish. It’s just a hobby of some people (and yes, we Germans consider them obnoxious, too) to lecture people on important issues they should change in their lives. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ich-bin-kein-berliner-a-stranger-tells-me-off-for-wanting-a-doughnut/476922.md?page=1)