# Iconic but awful **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 11, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285 "2021-10-11T02:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/221 "2021-10-14T04:40:41Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > But it’s a good subject for this thread, a significant movie historically that doesn’t hold up as a watchable film. I don’t know that I would call it “unwatchable”. I found it entertaining enough when i first watched it in my early 20s. But I will say I would prefer other films from the same time period. Maltese Falcon and Casablanca are both better as is Wizard of Oz. (Big Bogey fan.) Seven Samurai is probably my favorite movie of all time. Another thread contribution. My wife grew up on all the Jerry Lewis/Dean Martin comedies and still loves them. I find them very hit or miss. The Bellboy is very good. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/222 "2021-10-14T05:09:41Z")
> [@Quondam\_Mechanic](#): > > **Dropo** : If you’re going to make more doses then you would need proportionately more trappings. So either he is selling in plain brown wrappers or he’s stolen more packages than drug doses. The movie doesn’t go into any such details (IIRC)… According to the script (Modern Film Scripts, 1968), the penicillin is stolen by Joseph Harbin, “medical orderly at the 43rd General Hospital.” As such, it is easy to imagine he would have access to as many of the proper trappings as he needed. > [@Quondam\_Mechanic](#): > > …b) probably Wells never gave such issues a thought… Orson Welles did not write the script (and was not involved in coming up with or developing the story). It was written - the bulk of it, anyway - by Graham Greene. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/223 "2021-10-14T10:24:06Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > He wasn’t, because reasons. Does it matter, what didn’t happen because he wasn’t a great man? The film never makes that clear. > > Kane doesn’t get elected Governor because Big Jim Whoever reveals his affair with floozy Susan, whom he is attracted to in a meet cute for unexplained reasons. I thought the ending makes this pop out on rewatch. The first time we see him meet her, it maybe doesn’t mean much to us that, after he says “I guess we’re both lonely,” he adds that he was on his way to a warehouse in search of his youth — explaining that he was going to go on a sentimental journey upon looking through things that were put into storage after she died. And then, in what might seem like a mere non sequitur, he abruptly changes the subject to say he now runs a couple of newspapers; he then asks what _she_ does — and then, upon hearing about her job, he asks her if that’s what she wants to do, prompting her to say, _no, I wanted to be a singer, I guess._ This line of discussion then ends when she says, “well, you know what mothers are like,” and there’s a Big Pause as he gives a ‘yes’. But if you watch the movie _knowing_ that it ends with folks puzzling over whether ‘Rosebud’ was a word that explains his whole life — adding that he lost everything after he apparently got everything he wanted, and maybe it was what he _couldn’t_ get, or lost? And then we see what they don’t? …see, now the meet-cute contains _no_ non sequitur; we know he’s saying something Important To Him when he mentions having been on his way to that warehouse when they met, and we know why the conversation suddenly switches to discussing what he does these days and what she does these days and what she wanted to do: he’s not really changing the subject at all, there’s pretty much just one thought being expressed. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/224 "2021-10-14T13:40:08Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@salinqmind1](#): > > > > I’m really so out of the loop, but…is there actually ‘NEW’ rock? And how would a classic rock station squelch any of this ‘new rock’ of which you speak? > > Sure – a couple of examples of rock bands formed after the early '90s, which are still actively recording, are Foo Fighters and Greta Van Fleet. They get pretty much no play on stations which have a Classic Rock format, as they don’t fit the format – they, and their music are simply too new. Most such stations play neither songs nor artists from later than the very early '90s. > > Similarly, Tom Petty (with and without the Heartbreakers) kept recording after the early '90s, and though his older stuff is a classic rock staple, those stations rarely, if ever, play his newer stuff. There are literally thousands of bands playing what we all recognize as some form of rock who have come of age since the 90s grunge era. @kenobi_65 mentions a couple who have found a wider audience, and certainly bands such as Black Keys, Arcade Fire and Radiohead have had massive success. But new rock no longer has the mainstream megaphone of free radio, because most stations that used to play it have gone to classic rock (or country or other formats)\*. Why? Because people like you (and nothing against you) prefer to listen to “their” music than new stuff they may not like as well. “Progressive” stations such as Chicago’s WXRT soldier on, mixing new, old and lesser-heard music, but they’re struggling. Some satellite stations cover the new stuff fairly well. It’s out there if you want it, and a lot of it is awesome. \*WLUP in Chicago is one example – they used to play rock as it came out, but at some point they just stopped adding new music to their playlists and became a classic rock station. And then they were bought out and became a Christian station – and their last song before the switch was “Highway to Hell.” 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/225 "2021-10-14T13:58:03Z")
If you can find a college station on your radio, you’ll hear new rock. It may not be good, but it will be new. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/226 "2021-10-14T14:03:08Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > But all the other great composers are dead. Does that mean they’re de-composing? 😃 Sorry, I’ll let myself out. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/227 "2021-10-14T14:07:06Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > If you can find a college station on your radio, you’ll hear new rock. It may not be good, but it will be new. I was in college thirty-something years ago and one of our complaints about the student radio station was the weird nature of the music they played. The explanation was that they weren’t supposed to compete with commercial radio. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/228 "2021-10-14T14:27:34Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > “Progressive” stations such as Chicago’s WXRT soldier on, mixing new, old and lesser-heard music, but they’re struggling. Some satellite stations cover the new stuff fairly well. It’s out there if you want it, and a lot of it is awesome. I am a long-time loyal listener to WXRT. However, I’ve noticed that their playlist is much more limited than it used to be. I can’t remember the last time I heard a Ramones song that wasn’t “Blitzkrieg Bop” or “Rock 'n Roll Radio”. A couple of years ago, they played the hell out of Rodrigo y Gabriela’s one song, and that’s it. We’ve got Sirius Radio in our van, and from there, I’ve heard a number of their pieces - incredible. ONCE UPON A TIME (and this is going to show how long of a long-time-listener I am), they used to have one or two “Featured Artists” daily, where they’d play a couple of songs every hour from the feature. Got much much deeper into the play lists then. Miss that. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/229 "2021-10-14T14:33:10Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > certainly bands such as Black Keys, Arcade Fire and Radiohead have had massive success. Well, to be fair, Arcade Fire (and maybe even Radiohead) are now considered “Alternative” (which isn’t called Alternative Rock anymore because acts like Billie Eilish and Lana del Rey fit into the same umbrella these days) as opposed to Rock… perhaps one reason is that Rock stations have just become Classic rock stations. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/230 "2021-10-14T14:36:59Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > I am a long-time loyal listener to WXRT. However, I’ve noticed that their playlist is much more limited than it used to be. No question, they’ve made compromises over the years. > [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > ONCE UPON A TIME (and this is going to show how long of a long-time-listener I am), they used to have one or two “Featured Artists” daily, where they’d play a couple of songs every hour from the feature. I remember! My favorite was Carole King and King Crimson. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > … perhaps one reason is that Rock stations have just become Classic rock stations. Exactly. And the meaning of “Alternative” has morphed a few times since the 90s. What’s missing IMO is some acknowledgement that the Ramones and Lana Del Rey aren’t different genres at all, but actually just different points on the same spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/231 "2021-10-14T14:55:05Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Does that mean they’re de-composing? Yes, and [there’s less of them every year](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C52Ai1MGwU&ab_channel=StefanBuettner). You can say what you like to Debussy, but there’s not much left of him to hear. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@salinqmind1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/232 "2021-10-14T15:01:54Z")
I’m not opposed to hearing new music. When my daughter lived here, I heard new stuff all the time, thanks to her influence. But it doesn’t seem to be very important now to search it out myself. (I get my ‘new music’ from tv commercials and songs played at the end of tv dramas, lol.) …I listen to a CD by Beck in my car and consider that my most up to date ‘new music’ - and then I realize somewhere Beck could theoretically be playing that same CD now for his grand-daughter (if he had one) . 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/233 "2021-10-14T15:18:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But if you watch the movie _knowing_ that it ends with folks puzzling over whether ‘Rosebud’ was a word that explains his whole life — adding that he lost everything after he apparently got everything he wanted, and maybe it was what he _couldn’t_ get, or lost? > > And then we see what they don’t? The problem with the Rosebud framing device is that it limits audience empathy towards Kane, or against him really, since by rule it was never solved in universe, left for the reporters. So the reporters, who we really shouldn’t care that much about, wind up being the most empathetic characters, because they’re the only characters with any real agency. Kane evidently was aware of Rosebud and that he owned Rosebud, but he doesn’t go and find it in his warehouses because… reasons. I once read about someone IRL who collected baseball cards. He was very rich, so he could afford to buy every card. That became unsatisfactory, because all of the cards had more than one copy, and having all of them wasn’t enough, he needed a unique collection. So he hired someone to make unique cards of fictional players. This really didn’t seem to satisfy him either. It came across as the pathetic issues of the super rich, but it was empathetic. Kane would have had more audience empathy without the distancing framing device of Rosebud, if the characters were required to solve their own problems in universe. It doesn’t have to be Kane, he can remain in the dark personally, but someone in that universe needs to be able to figure it out. Memento would be an example of a movie with a complicated set-up and lead character who’s in the dark, but where the solution still occurs in universe. The problem with the meet cute with Alexander is it runs against my empathy as a viewer. I know Kane’s cheating on his wife, so I’m not going to be cheering him on here. The movie tries hard to make me not care about his first wife and child, having them killed off screen (as I mentioned), but I don’t buy it. That matters a lot more to me than the boring opera crap with Alexander. I don’t care about the operas, Alexander, Kane, or anything there. I also don’t think someone like Alexander would ever walk away from Kane, that didn’t ring true, and it didn’t happen with the real life men Kane was based on. Those men’s second wives and mistresses stuck around, Kane’s would too, except that the movie wants Kane to wind up alone and the characters aren’t allowed to resolve their own problems, because they’re held to the Rosebud framing device. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/234 "2021-10-14T16:05:11Z")
> [@salinqmind1](#): > > I listen to a CD by Beck in my car and consider that my most up to date ‘new music’ - and then I realize somewhere Beck could theoretically be playing that same CD now for his grand-daughter (if he had one) I hear that. I often cite Wilco as a band people should check out if they’re tired of classic rock, but the guys in Wilco are my age. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/235 "2021-10-14T16:30:56Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > > But if you watch the movie _knowing_ that it ends with folks puzzling over whether ‘Rosebud’ was a word that explains his whole life — adding that he lost everything after he apparently got everything he wanted, and maybe it was what he _couldn’t_ get, or lost? > > > > And then we see what they don’t? > > The problem with the Rosebud framing device is that it limits audience empathy towards Kane, or against him really, since by rule it was never solved in universe, left for the reporters. So the reporters, who we really shouldn’t care that much about, wind up being the most empathetic characters, because they’re the only characters with any real agency. > > Kane evidently was aware of Rosebud and that he owned Rosebud, but he doesn’t go and find it in his warehouses because… reasons. I once read about someone IRL who collected baseball cards. He was very rich, so he could afford to buy every card. That became unsatisfactory, because all of the cards had more than one copy, and having all of them wasn’t enough, he needed a unique collection. So he hired someone to make unique cards of fictional players. This really didn’t seem to satisfy him either. It came across as the pathetic issues of the super rich, but it was empathetic. Kane would have had more audience empathy without the distancing framing device of Rosebud, if the characters were required to solve their own problems in universe. It doesn’t have to be Kane, he can remain in the dark personally, but someone in that universe needs to be able to figure it out. Memento would be an example of a movie with a complicated set-up and lead character who’s in the dark, but where the solution still occurs in universe. > > The problem with the meet cute with Alexander is it runs against my empathy as a viewer. I know Kane’s cheating on his wife, so I’m not going to be cheering him on here. The movie tries hard to make me not care about his first wife and child, having them killed off screen (as I mentioned), but I don’t buy it. That matters a lot more to me than the boring opera crap with Alexander. I don’t care about the operas, Alexander, Kane, or anything there. I also don’t think someone like Alexander would ever walk away from Kane, that didn’t ring true, and it didn’t happen with the real life men Kane was based on. Those men’s second wives and mistresses stuck around, Kane’s would too, except that the movie wants Kane to wind up alone and the characters aren’t allowed to resolve their own problems, because they’re held to the Rosebud framing device. Several things you’re missing. First of all “Rosebud” ultimately isn’t important. It’s pure McGuffin and the film acknowledges this (“It’s just another piece of the puzzle”). It does have some resonances in Kane’s life – obviously, his loss of innocence – but it is not meant to explain anything. It’s only a hook to hang the story on. As for his relationship with Susan, it is wrong to think of it as an affair. First of all, the Hayes office would never have allowed it if there were the slightest hint of it being a sexual relationship. Susan was just a friend, one he needed since he was clearly emotionally estranged with his wife. She would sing and entertain him; she was in a rooming house which wouldn’t have allowed for anything more. Kane was a multifaceted character and the point of the movie is to show those facets, not to come up with any trite explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/236 "2021-10-14T16:35:13Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > And it’s only fitting that the film’s tin ear towards real life is exemplified by the voters actually caring about Kane’s affair, which I’m sure would totally happen in the world of 2021. … You do realize that _Citizen Kane_ isn’t set in 2021, right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/237 "2021-10-14T17:29:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Several things you’re missing. > > First of all “Rosebud” ultimately isn’t important. It’s pure McGuffin and the film acknowledges this (“It’s just another piece of the puzzle”). It does have some resonances in Kane’s life – obviously, his loss of innocence – but it is not meant to explain anything. It’s only a hook to hang the story on. > [@](#): > > Kane was a multifaceted character and the point of the movie is to show those facets, not to come up with any trite explanations. I disagree. No, I know _they eventually conclude_, upon figuring that they’ll never find out why it was his last word, that — whatever the hell it was — it was just one more puzzle piece in the life of a multifaceted character for whom it ultimately wasn’t important and wouldn’t have provided a trite explanation. But I figured the ensuing reveal was that setup’s _punchline_: that we then get to see that, oh, wait; this really _would’ve_ been the key to understanding his whole deal! Imagine, say, a murder mystery that ends with all of the investigators comparing notes and declaring that there’s no way of proving whodunit — maybe this was a brilliantly-planned murder that left no conclusive evidence, or maybe it wasn’ta murder _at all_, but just a freak accident — and, thinking back on the movie we’ve been watching for the last two hours, we realize that, yeah, the detectives seem to be correct. And then the last shot of that movie is the murder weapon they’ve been hypothesizing about, complete with a big visible fingerprint. I mean, yeah, we’d get that the sleuths concluded and announced something; but would we _care?_ ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/238 "2021-10-14T18:44:51Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > (the cue card scene has been parodied by everyone it seems). Which they stole from Dylan. Dylan who is iconic, but not awful, except for maybe his live performances of recent years. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MGxjIBEZvx0/maxresdefault.jpg "Bob Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blues (Official HD Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGxjIBEZvx0) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/239 "2021-10-14T18:59:32Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Which they stole from Dylan. Eh, that’s just running through cue cards - with one or two words on them. The Love, Actually cue card thing was writing really romantic speech with random music playing, which would make an angry lover swoon. Tangentially related at best. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/240 "2021-10-14T19:17:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > Several things you’re missing. > > > > First of all “Rosebud” ultimately isn’t important. It’s pure McGuffin and the film acknowledges this (“It’s just another piece of the puzzle”). It does have some resonances in Kane’s life – obviously, his loss of innocence – but it is not meant to explain anything. It’s only a hook to hang the story on. > > > [@](#): > > > > Kane was a multifaceted character and the point of the movie is to show those facets, not to come up with any trite explanations. > > I disagree. > > No, I know _they eventually conclude_, upon figuring that they’ll never find out why it was his last word, that — whatever the hell it was — it was just one more puzzle piece in the life of a multifaceted character for whom it ultimately wasn’t important and wouldn’t have provided a trite explanation. But I figured the ensuing reveal was that setup’s _punchline_: that we then get to see that, oh, wait; this really _would’ve_ been the key to understanding his whole deal! > > Imagine, say, a murder mystery that ends with all of the investigators comparing notes and declaring that there’s no way of proving whodunit — maybe this was a brilliantly-planned murder that left no conclusive evidence, or maybe it wasn’ta murder _at all_, but just a freak accident — and, thinking back on the movie we’ve been watching for the last two hours, we realize that, yeah, the detectives seem to be correct. And then the last shot of that movie is the murder weapon they’ve been hypothesizing about, complete with a big visible fingerprint. I mean, yeah, we’d get that the sleuths concluded and announced something; but would we _care?_ First of all, _Kane_ is not a murder mystery and comparing it to one is a false analogy. Showing Rosebud at the end is the equivalent of the psychologist’s explanation of Norman Bates at the end of _Psycho._ It’s there for those who need a simple explanation because they can’t understand the story in any other terms. Rosebud is an important symbol in Kane’s life, but if you think it’s supposed to explain everything, you aren’t grasping the movie, and ignoring the “just one piece of the puzzle” line. It’s a pure Mcguffin, and the main characteristic of a Mcguffin is that it’s ultimately not important. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=13)