# Iconic but awful **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 11, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285 "2021-10-11T02:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/321 "2021-10-19T08:29:15Z")
A local comedy team did “Who’s on First?” at the Orientation session of my daughter’s high school (a college of the visual and performing arts). There was no one in the auditorium who didn’t laugh hard throughout the sketch. This included myself, and I’ve seen it done many times. It’s one bit that every comedy team bothers to learn, since members of the audience invariably whisper “Oh, good! They’re going to do ‘Who’s on First?’” when they realize what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/322 "2021-10-19T09:27:49Z")
I don’t follow sports at all, and I’m British, so baseball is a total mystery to me. I could be completely wrong, but the entire premise of the sketch doesn’t make much sense. Do baseball players, or did they at the time, really have nicknames like “who” and “I don’t give a damn” and so on? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/323 "2021-10-19T09:37:34Z")
Apparently they have throughout the history of the game: > **[25 Funniest Names in Baseball History](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/924869-25-funniest-names-in-baseball-history)** > > The highest empowerment a parent might feel is the moment when their children are born and they get to give the baby a name. As you'll see, the majority of these names go way back, some as far back as the late 1800s... > **[Here Are 29 Of The Best Baseball Names Ever](https://www.buzzfeed.com/jeremyhayes/ranking-the-29-best-baseball-names-of-all-time)** > > Now batting... \[insert name that makes the crowd go wild\] > **[Prince, Pie and Pimentel: The 50 Funniest Names in Major League Baseball](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/645836-prince-pie-and-pimentel-the-50-funniest-names-in-major-league-baseball)** > > From Rusty Kuntz and Dick Pole to Randy Johnson and Wonderful Monds, baseball has had a knack for providing us with funny names... ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/324 "2021-10-19T10:29:20Z")
I don’t think it matters how realistic it is. (Also British, also couldn’t tell you what baseball players call themselves). It’s a basic “failure to communicate” gag. (See also the “[What does a yellow light mean?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HvmtbZzA40)” scene from sitcom Taxi). It’s not particularly plausible that players would be called “Who”, “What”, “Tomorrow” etc. It’s also not plausible that the two characters go for so long without working out what’s happening - after all, the joke only works if we, the audience, catch on straight away so it’s clearly not that difficult to understand. But once you buy in to the necessary premises and just sit back and watch them go round and round getting more and more frustrated - and savour the way the writers introduce more and more variations on the same basic gag - then it’s very funny.(Everyone has their own individual thresholds for suspension of disbelief, so if it doesn’t work for you it doesn’t work.) ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/325 "2021-10-19T13:31:16Z")
Arguably the problem with Unforgiven is the casting. Whether the viewer can overcome Eastwood. Whether Eastwood overwhelms the script. To me he does. Eastwood’s image is even more cliched than John Wayne’s was. And look, he’s winning the gunfight, just like always. Takes me out of the movie. Problem is, by that point you can’t make a Western without Eastwood. A couple of decades earlier, maybe you could. Too late at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/326 "2021-10-19T14:34:01Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Eastwood’s image is even more cliched than John Wayne’s was. That’s a good point. Yet, I thought no one _but_ Wayne could do _The Shootist_. Where _Unforgiven_ is a deconstruction of the Western genre, _The Shootist_ is a deconstruction of John Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/327 "2021-10-19T14:57:56Z")
There’s some awareness (and deconstruction) of Eastwood’s cliched image throughout the film. (For instance, the Schofield Kid wears a constant Eastman-esque squint, but it turns out he just has bad eyesight.) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/328 "2021-10-19T15:06:42Z")
Yep. Which is why it was important that Eastwood was in the role - he was deconstructing that for which he became famous. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/329 "2021-10-19T15:32:15Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > (See also the “[What does a yellow light mean?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HvmtbZzA40)” scene from sitcom Taxi). It never gets old. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/330 "2021-10-19T16:55:27Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > There’s some awareness (and deconstruction) of Eastwood’s cliched image throughout the film. There’s even a direct homage/deconstruction of the scene in Josie Wales “who do you shoot first” conversation. Wales had a whole logical path; Munny just shoots. “I was lucky in the order, but I’ve always been lucky when it comes to killin’ folks.” ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/331 "2021-10-19T17:18:44Z")
Ok, not awful, but not iconic, either. I don’t buy the innovative deconstruction angle, either, as the western hero was taken apart (by Eastwood himself) in _High Plains Drifter_ and in earlier movies. The problem with the final shootout is that the rest of the movie is meant to be realistic, but they went over the top at the end. In all the real western shootouts, something like this almost happened, once. Shootouts like this belong in a Star Wars or John Wick movie, not in a western meant to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/332 "2021-10-19T18:49:34Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > But once you buy in to the necessary premises and just sit back and watch them go round and round getting more and more frustrated - and savour the way the writers introduce more and more variations on the same basic gag - then it’s very funny.(Everyone has their own individual thresholds for suspension of disbelief, so if it doesn’t work for you it doesn’t work.) “Who’s On First” has also spawned a number of homages over the years, such as this _Pearls Before Swine_ comic strip: [https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10687096\_10152812629303764\_4320129111549333705\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=107&ccb=1-5&\_nc\_sid=ba80b0&\_nc\_ohc=i2-bHXGgSRsAX8UdPQz&\_nc\_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=9e36a3cf577660971f209baf8de10fa6&oe=61942925](https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10687096_10152812629303764_4320129111549333705_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=i2-bHXGgSRsAX8UdPQz&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=9e36a3cf577660971f209baf8de10fa6&oe=61942925) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/333 "2021-10-19T18:55:43Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “Who’s On First” has also spawned a number of homages over the years, My favorite is this one that Johnny Carson did back in 1982 [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1Evt6As72m4/hqdefault.jpg "Johnny Carson as Reagan, a "Who's On First" spoof") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Evt6As72m4) ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/334 "2021-10-19T18:57:35Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Sa-Kx5M-8Ak/hqdefault.jpg "MST3K Noh Theater Host Segment") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa-Kx5M-8Ak) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/335 "2021-10-19T18:58:38Z")
Hersheys referenced the routine in two commercials for their Whatchamacallit candy bar. One of them had comedians reprising Abbott and Costello’s roles. The other used kids [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/y4JYJYo7qaQ/hqdefault.jpg "Whatchamacallit On First?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4JYJYo7qaQ) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/336 "2021-10-19T19:18:53Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > I don’t buy the innovative deconstruction angle, either, as the western hero was taken apart (by Eastwood himself) in _High Plains Drifter_ and in earlier movies. That’s part of what makes the film so interesting to me. _High Plains Drifter_ deconstructed the earlier, John Wayne-era westerns, presenting themselves as a more “realistic” take on the genre - but it wasn’t, it was just as unrealistically stylized, just with a different aesthetic. _Unforgiven_ starts off as a deconstruction of Eastwood’s earlier Western films, once again saying, “That’s not how it really was; _this_ is how it really was.” Except, it’s still not - once again, it’s a stylized depiction of what we (in the late '90s) imagined the West was “really” like. The gunfight at the end is the film deconstructing itself, acknowledging that _Unforgiven_ is still a fantasy, no less than _High Plains Drifter_ or _Rio Bravo_. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/337 "2021-10-19T20:04:10Z")
Going back to iconic but awful TV Shows: _Cheers_. Cannot watch it. Every character on there, I would run over in the streets of Boston if I didn’t live 3,000 miles away. Now, _Frasier,_ I liked, at least for the first five seasons. Mainly because Frasier Crane is away from all those horrid characters that you hoped would all die in a bar fire. Even going back to see him on the first show, he’s like a hor d’oeuvres in a bowl of potato chips. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/338 "2021-10-19T22:52:31Z")
I think bell bottoms, disco music, avocado green colored walls and shag carpeting - all iconic representations of the late 70s to early 80s - were awful. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/339 "2021-10-20T00:37:19Z")
And another take on the “Who’s on first?” routine, the Credibility Gap featuring David Lander and Harry Shearer: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ludCVowT-DE/maxresdefault.jpg "The Credibility Gap: Who's on First (David L. Lander and Harry Shearer)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ludCVowT-DE) I remember hearing this on the radio back when and thinking it was funny. The timing doesn’t seem to great now but it’s still a good routine. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/340 "2021-10-20T01:01:29Z")
I remember similar sketches that were based on something similar, like how’s (Howe’s) on first, for the first person to perform in something (a play?), and then they ask where and why, with Wear and Wye being the towns that made the joke. Morecambe and Wise is the one that comes to mind for me, and it’s a fairly strong memory, but memory is fallible - they’re just the type to have done it. But if not them, then someone like them. It’s not the kind of TV show that was preserved for all time and I think most of it’s gone. I would have been maximum 7 years old when I saw it on Morecambe and Wise or whatever it was, and don’t think I’ve seen it since. But there are similar routines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=18)