# Iconic but awful **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 11, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285 "2021-10-11T02:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/141 "2021-10-12T02:14:01Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It’s a slightly uncomfortable film and Smith and Pamela Franklin bouncing off one another in person and at a distance is worth the price of admission for me. I think Smith deserved her Oscar and Franklin has to me always projected a sense of barely restrained, bubbling-under-the-surface-nutcase wide-eyed fanatic. Generally, not just in this film - something about those slightly insane-looking eyes. Have you ever seen _Our Mother’s House_? Oh, and I adore _They Live_. There’s such a thing as perfect genre films. This is one. Also, _Tremors_. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/142 "2021-10-12T02:22:37Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Have you ever seen _Our Mother’s House_ ? Weirdly (well not, I guess) I was just reading about it after thinking about Franklin and checking her wikipedia page. And I was thinking that looks interesting and I should try to find it - looks like Amazon Prime will rent it to me for three bucks. I guess I could make it a double-bill with The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane 😀. > [@carrps](#): > > Also, _Tremors_ . Tremors is IMHO an honest-to-God good film (I’m not sure I can entirely say that about They Live, entertaining though it was - Piper wasn’t much of an actor 😆). Comic book sf, but really well done for all of that. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/143 "2021-10-12T02:26:50Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > _Gladiator_ . Not a single surprise or line of unexpected dialogue in the whole flick. The first (and only) time I saw it, I was saying the lines to myself just before the actors did. That’s a good one! It was boring for exactly the reasons you name. Speaking of TV shows that have held up, we’ve been binging old Raymond Burr _Perry Mason_ episodes. Yeah, the guilty party ridiculously usually blurts out his/her guilt in open court, but the stories are very watchable, and I love the Mason-Street-Drake triumvirate. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/144 "2021-10-12T02:44:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Still, it was better than the vast majority of sitcom fare, and particularly public favorite _Friends_ , a show so generic that they didn’t even bother giving it a real title. Which, I think, is probably kind of the point; the characters are so bland the viewer can see themselves being one of them, just less attractive and not living in a gigantic Manhattan apartment with nothing but free time. It’s like a _Choose Your Own Adventure_ book where you don’t actually have to go to the effort of making any choices. I hated _Friends_ and agree with every word written here. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/145 "2021-10-12T04:01:57Z")
Thank you. I had suppressed that memory but agree 100% with your assessment. I could not believe how popular it was. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/146 "2021-10-12T04:30:43Z")
I have been to Disney World and have visited Animal Kingdom and Avatarland. I have never seen the movie, but they did a magnificent job creating the Land. I have not been on Flights of Passage - my father was not sure he was physically up to it - but The Na’vi River Journey is a nice relaxing boat ride. Flights of Passage, pre-Covid, had 3 and 4 hour waits. **It’s a Wonderful Life** is a horrible movie. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/147 "2021-10-12T06:04:38Z")
**Saving Private Ryan** **INCREDIBLE** opening scene but the moment the D-Day landing ends you can turn it off. The rest of the movie is like a really mediocre 70’s WW2 movie just done with a higher budget. Terrible dialog, idiotic plot, and way too damn long. With a lesser budget but same talent you can make a 90 minute D-Day movie that’s just the Omaha Beach sequence in real time and it would have worked better than the 3 hour slog that SPR was. Thankfully it lead to **Band of Brothers** getting made so I’ve made peace with it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/148 "2021-10-12T12:14:41Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Fred MacMurray is something of an exception, both because the show was called _ **My Three Sons** _ and Fred himself was, I think, better known for playing dark roles in movies like _ **Double Indemnity** _ and _ **The Apartment** _ . (He was, however, also Disney’s “Absent-Minded Professor.”) I think you’ve been mislead by the movies you’re familiar with. MacMurray was better known for his lighter roles - his playing a Bad Guy in Double Indemnity and The Apartment was something of a departure. He didn’t just play the _Absent-Minded Professor_ (and returned in the same role in _Son of Flubber_), he was also in the original version of Disney’s _The Shaggy Dog_ and in the Disney comedy _Bon Voyage_. And that’s off the top of my head. According to his Wikipedia entry in the 1930s and 1940s " Usually cast in light comedies as a decent, thoughtful character ( _[The Trail of the Lonesome Pine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trail_of_the_Lonesome_Pine_(1936_film))_ 1936) and in melodramas ( _[Above Suspicion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Above_Suspicion_(1943_film))_ 1943) and musicals ( _[Where Do We Go from Here?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Do_We_Go_from_Here%3F_(1945_film))_ 1945), MacMurray became one of the film industry’s highest-paid actors of the period". It goes on to note that " Despite being typecast as a “nice guy”, MacMurray often said his best roles were when he was cast against type, such as under the direction of Billy Wilder and [Edward Dmytryk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Dmytryk)." ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/149 "2021-10-12T13:12:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Definitely agreed. Given how taken people were with it at its release, it was amazing just how quickly it vanished from the public consciousness. As already noted, I suspect it was a matter of it being visually breathtaking, while not actually being a great movie. One thing that always irked me about _Avatar_ was that Ebert gave it 4 stars, essentially because it looked cool, but he had denied _Aliens_ a perfect rating because it was “too intense” !! ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/150 "2021-10-12T13:35:45Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > **Saving Private Ryan** > > **INCREDIBLE** opening scene b Speaking of war movies with incredible iconic openings **Full Metal Jacket** has the incredible opening with R Lee Emery as the Drill Instructor but the film kind peters out after the Basic Training scenes ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/151 "2021-10-12T13:46:20Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Terrible dialog, idiotic plot, and way too damn long. You can say this about any number of post-_Schindler_ Spielberg movies. _Bridge of Spies_ looked fantastic and had great acting, but the script was so heavy-handed my eyes about rolled out of my skull. And can’t Speilberg move on from John Williams scores already? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/152 "2021-10-12T13:53:13Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > And can’t Speilberg move on from John Williams scores already? Well, Williams is 89, so that decision may get made for Spielberg soon anyway. Williams has stated that he’s now retired from writing scores for Star Wars films. On the other hand, he’s supposed to be writing the soundtrack for the next Indiana Jones film, which is scheduled to come out next year. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/153 "2021-10-12T14:35:04Z")
I’m surprised no one here has mentioned the Sherwood Schwartz duo - Gilligan’s Island and The Brady Bunch. As a kid, I watched both incessantly in reruns. As an adult, oof. This being Spooky Season, for a movie, I’ll nominate Halloween. Watch it again. The acting is TERRIBLE. ESPECIALLY in the early parts of the movie before Michael starts terrorizing Jamie Lee. All of the acting in the first 20 minutes or so of the movie is just wooden as hell. Jamie Lee Curtis has shown that she can act - John Carpenter did NOT pull the best out of her. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/154 "2021-10-12T14:50:29Z")
Sadly, you may be right. I’ve seen Fred in one light comedy that was on late at night (don’t remember the name, but it starts with him meeting his love interest at a boat show where he’s looking at a yacht). Other than that, I can’t think of any others. I wonder why they don’t turn up on TV as often as his darker roles do. (So far as I’ve noticed, anyway. Correction to my _ **Five-0** _ post: It was Elaine Joyce who play the hooker tossed off a balcony, and not Joyce Bulifant (correct spelling). I get them confused sometimes because they were both panelists on the old _ **Match Game** _ so often Elaine Joyce > **[Pictures of Elaine Joyce, Picture #207784 - Pictures Of Celebrities](https://www.picsofcelebrities.com/celebrity/elaine-joyce/pictures/elaine-joyce-images.html)** > > Pictures of Elaine Joyce, Picture #207784, Elaine Joyce (born Elaine Joyce Pinchot; December 19, 1945) is an American actress. Joyce Bulifant [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KNpRA54ATto/hqdefault.jpg) ](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KNpRA54ATto/hqdefault.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/155 "2021-10-12T14:56:38Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The same was true of _ **Mary Tyler Moore** _ . I have trouble thinking of any shows where I laughed at Mary herself. Normally it was because of the people around her.) Chuckles the Clown? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/156 "2021-10-12T15:04:56Z")
Good call! But you’ll never guess which episode of _ **MTM** _ is my all-time favorite, and it has very little to do with comedy; “Some of My Best Friends Are Rhoda,” where Mary’s new WASP tennis partner turns out to be anti-Semetic. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/157 "2021-10-12T16:50:33Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Blasphemy alert: “Citizen Kane” was one of the most tedious slogs I’ve ever tried to watch. Incredibly boring. Agreed. I know it was innovative, but I found it boring. Also blasphemy - why the frell do people seem to revere The Godfather?! Or PorkLipz Nao - holy crap on a stick. I will admit the first time I ever watched it, it was taped on about 4 different tapes [had to work, and we didn’t have a full blank tape, just tail ends of 4 so it got spread out] and I sort of watched it out of order, and I kept falling asleep because nothing seemed to add up. Then we figured out I was trying to watch it out of order, so mrAru went and rented it from Blockbuster. I kept falling asleep, and he would hit pause when he saw I was out cold and we would start it up again the next night. Then we tried it on a full on saturday and it took me about 14 hours of watching it between naps. Still don’t understand what is so good about it, you could chop out the vast majority of it and turn it into a 1 hour TV show. > [@DCnDC](#): > > **The Blair Witch Project** > It didn’t invent the found footage subgenre, and it’s essentially unwatchable. Definitely. Beyotch, blow your damned nose. I didn’t find any of it scary, actually. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Roadhouse is certainly stupid, but it isn’t awful. It’s wonderful, but you have to be ok with stupid. I like it for the music =) > [@terentii](#): > > Andy Griffith proved he could be funny in _ **No Time for Sergeants** _ . Hell to the yes. Though he was wonderfully self destructive in A Face in the Crowd. > [@dorvann](#): > > Speaking of war movies with incredible iconic openings **Full Metal Jacket** has the incredible opening with R Lee Emery as the Drill Instructor but the film kind peters out after the Basic Training scenes I have seen the full movie 3 or 4 times, now I just watch it through the murder in the latrine. I love watching R Lee Ermey stalk around the open bay barracks. Seeing him running along with the guys makes me marvel at real life DIs, they have to be in incredible physical shape do do that day in, day out all year. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/158 "2021-10-12T17:00:57Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Seeing him running along with the guys makes me marvel at real life DIs, they have to be in incredible physical shape do do that day in, day out all year. - If you know what’s good for you, you _don’t_ outrun the D.I. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/159 "2021-10-12T17:54:39Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > And can’t Speilberg move on from John Williams scores already? But all the other great composers are dead. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285/160 "2021-10-12T17:59:33Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > why the frell do people seem to revere The Godfather?! I have to agree. I felt about the same as you when I saw it. I did watch it the whole way through, but it failed to make any kind of impression on me. I blame it somewhat on the fact that it was so iconic. By the time I saw The Godfather, anything that was innovative or new in it had already been copied or reinterpreted in things I had seen. And, it’s hard to take a movie too seriously when every single scene has been parodied repeatedly, and your picturing Millhouse saying some of the iconic lines. I know that’s an unpopular opinion to hold on The Godfather, but I view it a bit like The Matrix today. Anybody seeing The Matrix for the first time today, is maybe going to think it was fine, but whatever, a shoot-em-up where those memes came from. It’s very hard to put yourself into the mindset of seeing it in the theater with no spoilers, and none of the cultural ripples it set off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-but-awful/952285.md?page=9)