# Iconic characters in literary SF **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570 "2014-09-05T11:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/41 "2014-09-07T05:19:54Z")
Arthur Dent A real knee biter ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/42 "2014-09-07T06:23:16Z")
How can you name Jack Vance’s five Demon Princes without mentioning Kirth Gersen? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/43 "2014-09-07T19:11:52Z")
Wait, _Neuromancer_ is a trilogy? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/44 "2014-09-07T20:47:34Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > How can you name Jack Vance’s five Demon Princes without mentioning Kirth Gersen? What’s astonishing is that he’s…not all that interesting. He’s a kind of “Hamlet” character…with really hot stuff martial arts! It’s only when he turns off his introspection and starts killing people that he shows his competence. Otherwise, he spends too much time wondering. He’s a kind of tabula rasa, in some ways. We never learn much about him…because there isn’t much to learn. His grandfather made him into (so to speak) a killing machine. Adam Reith is a bit more dynamic, a bit more witty and fun-loving, more developed as a character, and closer to iconic. The scene where he schools the young noble bravo in sword-fighting, aboard the yacht during the crossing of the sea, was one of the best “well-deserved comeuppance” scenes in all literature. **Tim R. Mortiss** was right to name Cugel the Clever, who is ferociously iconic, a man who would stand out (in a bad way) in any crowd. You could substitute Cugel for lots of other protagonists – James Bond, for instance, or Indiana Jones, and he would succeed in defeating the villain, having sex with the loveliest of the women, and, at the end, would have to bolt the scene in abject humiliation. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/45 "2014-09-07T21:45:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, _Neuromancer_ is a trilogy? It starts the Spawl trilogy, followed by Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/46 "2014-09-07T22:14:51Z")
The nameless Narrator in H.G. Welles’ _The War Of The Worlds._ Unforgettable, yet anonymous. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/47 "2014-09-07T23:45:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > What’s astonishing is that he’s…not all that interesting. He’s a kind of “Hamlet” character…with really hot stuff martial arts! It’s only when he turns off his introspection and starts killing people that he shows his competence. Otherwise, he spends too much time wondering. > > He’s a kind of tabula rasa, in some ways. We never learn much about him…because there isn’t much to learn. His grandfather made him into (so to speak) a killing machine. > > Adam Reith is a bit more dynamic, a bit more witty and fun-loving, more developed as a character, and closer to iconic. The scene where he schools the young noble bravo in sword-fighting, aboard the yacht during the crossing of the sea, was one of the best “well-deserved comeuppance” scenes in all literature. > > **Tim R. Mortiss** was right to name Cugel the Clever, who is ferociously iconic, a man who would stand out (in a bad way) in any crowd. You could substitute Cugel for lots of other protagonists – James Bond, for instance, or Indiana Jones, and he would succeed in defeating the villain, having sex with the loveliest of the women, and, at the end, would have to bolt the scene in abject humiliation. I agree that Kirth Gersen isn’t all that interesting unto himself, and is certainly not iconic. He is defined by his mission, and when the mission is over, he himself even admits that there’s not much left of him. I have a personal theory that Vance deliberately called his villains “Demon” princes, because he was making an analogy to a person who is fighting his own internal personal demons. And many people define themselves by their demons: their phobias, their addictions, their inescapable needs and compulsions. Gersen’s story was that self-struggle, masquerading as an adventure story. As for Cugel, the only other fictional character who I think can be likened to him is Capt. Jack Sparrow: both are selfish rapscallions with no discernible scruples, who sometimes win the battle, sometimes lose, but you somehow always find yourself rooting for them. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/48 "2014-09-08T00:24:36Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > . . . As for Cugel, the only other fictional character who I think can be likened to him is Capt. Jack Sparrow: both are selfish rapscallions with no discernible scruples, who sometimes win the battle, sometimes lose, but you somehow always find yourself rooting for them. Excellent parallel. Barry Lyndon might possibly also fit in their company. (Or Captain McHeath?) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/49 "2014-09-08T03:00:16Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > Arthur Dent > > A real knee biter I don’t know if he’d qualify. Before he was in a book or a TV series or a movie, he was a character in a radio series. That’s why I didn’t nominate Marvin. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/50 "2014-09-08T03:41:21Z")
Douglas Adams still had to write him into existence. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/51 "2014-09-08T03:55:48Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > The nameless Narrator in H.G. Welles’ _The War Of The Worlds._ > > Unforgettable, yet anonymous. This didn’t stop people from giving him a name when adapting the book to other media. In Howard Koch’s radio script for the infamous 1938 radio drama, Orson Welles did it as Professor Pierson of Princeton. For the 1953 George Pal movie, Gene Barry played Dr. Clayton Forrester. Yes! They stole the name of the guy in Deep 13 for MST3K from the first movie version of WotW! ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/52 "2014-09-08T06:39:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > To be “iconic,” doesn’t a character have to transcend his genre? > > Even people who rarely or never read or watch mysteries recognize Sherlock Holmes or can quote lines from Sam Spade. That makes them icons. But even devoted P.D. James fans know that Adam Dalgliesh isn’t an icon. I love Nero Wolfe, but he isn’t an icon. Neither are Spenser, Fletch or Kay Scarpetta. > > Thus, almost none of the characters RikWriter cites strike me as iconic in the same way. They aren’t well known to people who aren’t rabid sci-fi/fantasy fans. And I hate to say this, but even Paul Atreides and Ender Wiggin wouldn’t ring a bell with most people. > > The only “iconic” literary sci-fi characters I can think of come from older books and stories a lot of people wouldn’t even regard as true science fiction -like Jules Verne’s Captain Nemo, or H.G. Wells’ Invisible Man (Griffin). > > The most iconic sci-fi characters aren’t literary- they’re movie characters like Flash Gordon and Han Solo. Although I feebly offered a couple of nominees upthread, I have to agree with your point. Truly iconic characters in written SF are close to nonexistent. “Iconic” is an adjective I’d apply to characters like Batman, Sherlock Holmes, or Captain Ahab. Hardly anyone mentioned here qualifies. Frankenstein, certainly; maybe Tarzan if you count that as SF. But, seriously, Lazarus Long? Susan Calvin? Most of this thread is simply Dopers naming characters from their favorite SF novels. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/53 "2014-09-08T12:18:08Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Although I feebly offered a couple of nominees upthread, I have to agree with your point. Truly iconic characters in written SF are close to nonexistent. > > “Iconic” is an adjective I’d apply to characters like Batman, Sherlock Holmes, or Captain Ahab. Hardly anyone mentioned here qualifies. Frankenstein, certainly; maybe Tarzan if you count that as SF. But, seriously, Lazarus Long? Susan Calvin? Most of this thread is simply Dopers naming characters from their favorite SF novels. I’d disagree – these aren’t simply “characters from their favorite SF novels” – they’re characters that would be viewed as iconic within the SF community. And, as I argued upthread, I believe “iconic” is certainly appropriate, whether recognized by the community at large or not. There are a few characters that break through from the written page to wider public consciousness – Captain Nemo, Anthony “Buck” Rogers (who started out in the pulps, before going to comic strips, then radio, then movie serials. Buck wasn’[t the first guy to use a Ray Gun, but he seems to be the first to use a hand-held ray gun.). But that’s because the General Public doesn’t read as much SF, or remember the names of the characters. John Carter is definitely the iconic Sword-Wielding Swash-Buckling Interplanetary Romance Hero – he’s not the first, nor did he make the biggest splash in other media (Bob Clampett’s attempted carton version sadly did not succeed. And Flash Gordon was a ripoff of both him and Buck Rogers that stole much of their combined thunder), so until the lamented Disney film few people outside SF/Fantasy fans would know his name, but he’s no less iconic for that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/54 "2014-09-08T12:53:50Z")
Alex DeLarge from **A Clockwork Orange**. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/55 "2014-09-09T17:34:47Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Larry Niven had Louis Wu, Speaker to Animals and…? Beowulf Shaeffer ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/56 "2014-09-09T19:44:28Z")
I searched the thread and was surprised by no mention of Darth Vader. He’s so wonderfully iconic…I once saw a 12-inch Darth Vader action figure used as a death icon in a Voodoo layout! Quite seriously! It was in a Los Angeles Museum (um, I don’t remember which) exhibit on voodoo, and they had a replica display, with the figures, candles, icons, symbols, etc. Right in among the clutter was Darth Vader (possibly substituting for Baron Samedi?) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/57 "2014-09-09T20:00:49Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I searched the thread and was surprised by no mention of Darth Vader. Probably because Star Wars doesn’t count as _literary_ SF—though there was an attempt to get it in on a technicality: > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Technically, didn’t the STAR WARS novel come out half a year before the movie? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/58 "2014-09-27T19:23:35Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Although I feebly offered a couple of nominees upthread, I have to agree with your point. Truly iconic characters in written SF are close to nonexistent. > > “Iconic” is an adjective I’d apply to characters like Batman, Sherlock Holmes, or Captain Ahab. Hardly anyone mentioned here qualifies. Frankenstein, certainly; maybe Tarzan if you count that as SF. But, seriously, Lazarus Long? Susan Calvin? Most of this thread is simply Dopers naming characters from their favorite SF novels. I notice that most of the characters you name as iconic are from TV, comics and mainstream lit (Ahab). Maybe you just aren’t a written SF fan? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/59 "2014-09-27T19:28:49Z")
I’ll second the nomination of Zakalwe from “Use of Weapons” upthread. Once you have read that book, you can’t forget Zakalwe, and he forms the basis for comparison of other villains and heroes throughout history & literature. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570/60 "2014-09-27T19:32:01Z")
Heinlein’s Juan Rico? :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iconic-characters-in-literary-sf/697570.md?page=4)