# ID a possibly pre-war UK motorcycle **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848 "2015-09-28T16:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/1 "2015-09-28T16:50:12Z")
I happened across a motorcycle meet of classic bikes at the weekend and took a couple of pictures. I’d be grateful if anyone could maybe give the model and year of this old [Francis Barnett](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/21785741205/) bike, please. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/2 "2015-09-29T06:03:08Z")
I don’t know the model and year, but it has a Villiers two-stroke engine. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/3 "2015-09-29T11:43:47Z")
Thanks for the info, Jeff. I came across [this page,](http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Francis-Barnett) but I don’t know enough about bikes to narrow it down much. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/4 "2015-09-29T17:45:01Z")
Looks like a Francis Barnett Falcon, maybe 175cc. The motor is definitely a two stroke, I’d say it was something from the 1950’s There were quite a few of these types of bikes around, I think it was something to do with war confiscation of patents, this was a Czech engine - which the Germans nicked, and then everyone nicked it off them ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/5 "2015-09-30T10:59:31Z")
Thanks, Casdave. I’ll update the info on Flickr. Also seen there were [this bike](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/21164782183), and [this one](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/21211659474). And [this guy](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/21795289211/in/photostream/)! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/6 "2015-09-30T11:55:05Z")
If it is the Villiers engine, it’s nothing to do with Czech engines. Villiers was British: [http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Villiers](http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Villiers) They fitted AMc engines as well > **[A Brief History of AMC Motorcycles - webBikeWorld](https://www.webbikeworld.com/associated-motor-cycles/)** > > AMC = Associated Motor Cycles BIRTH OF AN EMPIRE Associated Motor Cycles was more popularly known as AMC (not to be confused with ‘the other AMC’, American Motors Corporation, the US company that owned Rambler, Metro & Jeep, which sold out to... ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/7 "2015-09-30T15:08:32Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > If it is the Villiers engine, it’s nothing to do with Czech engines. Villiers was British. . . I think **casdave’s** claim was that Villiers copied a Czech engine design, not that the engine was built by a Czech company. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/8 "2015-09-30T16:17:54Z")
Francis Barnett Merlin, postwar. [“1940 Following World War II, the company produced only two models - the Powerbike and the Merlin.”](http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Francis-Barnett) [Google images](https://www.google.com/search?q=francis+barnett+merlin&num=30&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCNXRzpKTn8gCFYt7kgodFBYJaw&biw=1440&bih=775#imgrc=_) **casdave** is the expert, but it looks like a typical a Fifties British bike. IIRC, telescoping forks weren’t rolled out until after the War, and swingarm rear suspension came along in the late Fifties. ---
**Author:** ![Seren359](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@Seren359](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seren359)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/9 "2015-09-30T16:42:25Z")
F/B Falcon mod 54 picture here [http://www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-1050938-vintage-0](http://www.cheffins.co.uk/lot/-1050938-vintage-0) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/10 "2015-09-30T18:02:43Z")
I’m not an expert on Francis Barnett motorcycles but the linked photo in the OP looks like a 1949 or 1950 Francis Barnett Falcon. The 1949 and 1950 “Fanny B” had a telescopic front fork and hardtail rearend. Rear suspension first appeared in 1952, as did the 2-up seat. 1950 Francis Barnett Merlin Villiers merlin 2 stroke engine with a three speed gearbox. [http://classic-motorbikes.net/gallery~francis-barnett-classic-motorcycles](http://classic-motorbikes.net/gallery~francis-barnett-classic-motorcycles) [http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/1950\_francis\_barnett\_merlin.jpg](http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/1950_francis_barnett_merlin.jpg) Francis-Barnett Merlin Falcon 1950 Britain’s Leading Lightweight. Villiers Engines. Tri-Pressure Front Forks. 125cc Merlin or 200cc Falcon > **[Francis-Barnett Merlin Falcon 1950](https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/francis-barnett/Francis-Barnett-1950-Merlin-Falcon-Advert.htm)** > > Vintage British Motorcycles Made in Coventry | Sheldon's EMU Francis Barnett Merlin 53 125cc Motorcycle - 1950 > **[Francis Barnett Merlin 53 125cc Motorcycle - 1950 - a photo on Flickriver](https://www.flickriver.com/photos/imagetaker1/5117427812/)** > > Flickriver - view images as a 'river of photos' and more... 1949 Francis-Barnett In 1949 The range expanded and over the next few years all the motorcycles went over to telescopic forks. In 1952 Pivoted-fork rear suspension first appeared, as did the firm’s first competition models. [http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Francis-Barnett](http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Francis-Barnett) > **[Francis-Barnett Motorcycles](https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/francis-barnett/)** > > Francis-Barnett motorcycles of Coventry, one of Britain's most famous two-stroke manufacturers. 1954 Francis-Barnett Falcon [http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/1954-francis-barnett-falcon.jpg](http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/1954-francis-barnett-falcon.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-a-possibly-pre-war-uk-motorcycle/732848/11 "2015-10-01T12:01:38Z")
Wow; thanks for that research **doorhinge**. So it’s almost certainly a Falcon, most likely from 1950, as I understand the various posts. Thank you all. Don’t think I’ve got any other pictures of bikes to show you, but here’s a [Morgan sports car](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/8937190381) from 1971, and a photo Flickr [auto-tagged as a motorcycle](https://www.flickr.com/photos/17270214@N05/3360453412/in/photostream/)!