# ID of poker game played in TNG Ep ”Cause and Effect” S5:18 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004 "2013-07-20T03:18:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/1 "2013-07-20T03:18:15Z")
A poker game in Star Trek The Next Generation episode Cause And Effect is played with Worf, Dr.Crusher, Riker, Data as dealer. A card is dealt to each player face down, and then one face up. Worf opens a round of bidding. Data deals another card face up to each player, and makes the comment that Dr.Crusher now has priority as her face up cards make the best hand. Betting and dealing in turn continue after this. What game is this? I think I have an idea, but I don’t want to bias the responses. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/2 "2013-07-20T03:19:34Z")
5 or 7 card stud. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/3 "2013-07-20T03:24:22Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > 5 or 7 card stud. That simple? The entire notion of having so many up cards is… Very strange to me. I know it happens in games, but I thought the game in question was waaaay more exotic. that, or I am way off my self. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/4 "2013-07-20T03:32:37Z")
Five card stud - nothing wrong with that. I find endless rounds of Holdem to be boring. Try “Indian” poker sometime - only one card up - and you don’t get to see your own. Highly entertaining… ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/5 "2013-07-20T03:38:39Z")
Also - for that plot point to work - they really needed five or seven card stud. Also - to nitpick - not you - but the writers - Riker makes at least three illegal string bets (think it may have been four, but didn’t feel like rewatching). And Worf exposes his hole card when folding - which is considered bad form when players still in the game. Very unklingon like… ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/6 "2013-07-20T03:44:50Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > Also - for that plot point to work - they really needed five or seven card stud. > > Also - to nitpick - not you - but the writers - Riker makes at least three illegal string bets (think it may have been four, but didn’t feel like rewatching). And Worf exposes his hole card when folding - which is considered bad form when players still in the game. Very unklingon like… I didn’t want to spoil the episode, I figured I gave enough to ID the game. (Then again, I think I’m the only person binging on the entire TNG run, thanks to Netflix. I’m 30, so I remember an episode here or there before, but I feel I can finally appreciate them in earnest now. That, or I’m more comfortable in embracing my Geek. But yeah, I took issue with Worf’s fold too. Yeah, Riker betting like that, the director should have said someth… Oh. Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/7 "2013-07-20T03:49:14Z")
It has to be five card… seven card starts with two down, one up. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/8 "2013-07-20T03:51:41Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It has to be five card… seven card starts with two down, one up. That works for the plot point I left out. That, and the point you made about two down cards… To high jack my own: What is “Spit in the ocean” then? ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/9 "2013-07-20T04:00:37Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > That simple? The entire notion of having so many up cards is… Very strange to me. I know it happens in games, but I thought the game in question was waaaay more exotic. that, or I am way off my self. Five card stud is 1 down, 4 up. Seven card stud is 2 down, 4 up, 1 down, and is far more popular. It’s what they usually played on ST:TNG, often with wild cards. It’s what most people usually played until Texas Hold-'Em took over. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/10 "2013-07-20T04:06:53Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > But yeah, I took issue with Worf’s fold too. Just rewatched the scene on Netflix. To be fair, it looked to me like Worf was just being organized. He flipped over his hole card and immediately turned it and the rest of his cards face-down. I’d probably do the same, which suggests that Worf might be as OCD as me. When I worked a cash register I was obsessive about all the bills facing the same direction 😃 The most questionable action in that hand, to me, was that Data took as long as he did to fold. His face-up cards couldn’t have led to anything. The only possibility I can see is that his first face-up card made a pair with his hole card. ---
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/11 "2013-07-20T13:20:57Z")
I believe we saw them play 5 card draw in some other episodes too. Don’t believe we ever saw hold’em though. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/12 "2013-07-20T13:29:14Z")
> [@jacobsta811](#): > > I believe we saw them play 5 card draw in some other episodes too. Don’t believe we ever saw hold’em though. The ironic thing, is that for this stretch in the run, iirc, the poker night has shown up three or four times in the past 5-6 episodes. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/13 "2013-07-20T14:16:38Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Five card stud is 1 down, 4 up. Seven card stud is 2 down, 4 up, 1 down, and is far more popular. It’s what they usually played on ST:TNG, often with wild cards. It’s what most people usually played until Texas Hold-'Em took over. This scene always made me laugh. Yeah, let’s make a quarter of the deck wild… TROI: \*All right. This hand, the game is Federation Day. \* WORF: \*What is that? \* TROI: \*Well, the Federation was founded in Twenty One Sixty One, so, twos, sixes, and aces are wild. \* WORF: \*That is a woman’s game. \* TROI: \*Oh? Why is that? \* WORF: \*All those wild cards. They support a weak hand. A man’s game has no wild cards. \* [Poker in Star Trek](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Poker) (Memory Alpha) Towards the end of the article, Sirtis comments that no one would want to play poker with an empath. My answer is that she must have been dead money, despite her telepathic abilities. My favorite TNG poker scene is Data using the holodeck to play cards with Hawking, Newton and Einstein. ([YouTube](http://youtu.be/mg8_cKxJZJY)) Second favorite scene is when Data finds himself penniless in 19th century San Francisco and finds a poker game to engage in a little fund-raising. ([YouTube](http://youtu.be/HVdTRPfDLQA)) A shame they never played Pot Limit Omaha. Data would’ve crushed that game. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/14 "2013-07-20T14:53:27Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > This scene always made me laugh. Yeah, let’s make a quarter of the deck wild… TROI: \*All right. This hand, the game is Federation Day. \* > WORF: \*What is that? \* > TROI: \*Well, the Federation was founded in Twenty One Sixty One, so, twos, sixes, and aces are wild. \* > WORF: \*That is a woman’s game. \* > TROI: \*Oh? Why is that? \* > WORF: \*All those wild cards. They support a weak hand. A man’s game has no wild cards. \* > [Poker in Star Trek](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Poker) (Memory Alpha) Towards the end of the article, Sirtis comments that no one would want to play poker with an empath. My answer is that she must have been dead money, despite her telepathic abilities. > > My favorite TNG poker scene is Data using the holodeck to play cards with Hawking, Newton and Einstein. ([YouTube](http://youtu.be/mg8_cKxJZJY)) > > Second favorite scene is when Data finds himself penniless in 19th century San Francisco and finds a poker game to engage in a little fund-raising. ([YouTube](http://youtu.be/HVdTRPfDLQA)) > > A shame they never played Pot Limit Omaha. Data would’ve crushed that game. “It’s hard for me to tell what hand I have here, with all the wild cards.” … I’m not entirely sure I got what Worf meant there. Was the “Federation Day” scene in Cause and Effect? Like I said, a lot of the episodes around here have poker in them. I was wrapping up my viewing of Season 1 and I made an open comment on my Facebook, that I would love nothing more than to have seen TNG characters playing poker. little did I know. A friend on FB later told me he had to bite his tongue over all of it. I figured that Troi and Geordi would cancel each other out. (In fact, Geordi mentions that he chooses not to read the cards in play.) I also figured that Data would get hung up on bluffs and not having the cards when he needed them. I was also hoping that Wesley would have joined in. Guinan would have been too much of a killjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/15 "2013-07-20T15:03:28Z")
Frankly, I’m surprised anyone here even knows there are forms of poker besides Hold 'Em. No one I’ve run into in the real world seems to. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/16 "2013-07-20T15:08:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Frankly, I’m surprised anyone here even knows there are forms of poker besides Hold 'Em. No one I’ve run into in the real world seems to. I asked up thread about spit in the ocean, can you enlighten? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/17 "2013-07-20T15:13:45Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I asked up thread about spit in the ocean, can you enlighten? > **[Draw Poker Games - Variants, Rules & Strategies](https://poker.com/game/draw-poker-games/)** > > We cover the rules and strategies of over 20 draw poker games, including Standard 5 card-draw, "Wild Widow" "Honky Tonk", Jacks and Back, Jacks or Better & More ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/18 "2013-07-20T15:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > “It’s hard for me to tell what hand I have here, with all the wild cards.” … I’m not entirely sure I got what Worf meant there. He doubtless knew what the best hand was that he could construct using his cards (including wilds), since that’s really easy. But he doesn’t know whether he has a good hand or not, since what counts as a “good hand” is radically changed by so many wilds. Is, say, a three-of-a-kind worth betting on, or do so many wilds mean that someone else at the table is sure to have something better? ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/19 "2013-07-20T15:27:09Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Was the “Federation Day” scene in Cause and Effect? Like I said, a lot of the episodes around here have poker in them. [The Outcast](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Outcast_%28episode%29). (517) > [@](#): > > I was also hoping that Wesley would have joined in. Guinan would have been too much of a killjoy. Wesley playing poker with the senior staff: [http://youtu.be/bswileFeChA](http://youtu.be/bswileFeChA) And another string bet from the Commander. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004/20 "2013-07-20T15:40:09Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Frankly, I’m surprised anyone here even knows there are forms of poker besides Hold 'Em. No one I’ve run into in the real world seems to. I remember playing in a weekly game in the eighties and no one had ever heard of Hold 'em. It was usually draw and stud with variations like [Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poker_variants#High_Chicago_or_Low_Chicago). But I can see why HE has taken over. Since each player only gets two cards, you can have a large number of players at a single table. It’s also fast: After dealing out the hole cards, all the dealer has to do is deal the flop, turn & river. One can see why casinos love this game. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/id-of-poker-game-played-in-tng-ep-cause-and-effect-s5-18/664004.md?page=2)