# Idaho vs. education **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109 "2021-12-15T16:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/1 "2021-12-15T16:36:54Z")
I posted this article in the SRIOTD thread, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought it prolly deserves its own thread for real debate on the idealogies, priorities and realities that the story brings up, and of course of the ensuing issues and/or resolutions that occur. This is a chance to document and observe and comment on a real-world libertarian experiment that is actually happening right now. > **[Businesses: Idaho education politics are hurting state](https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-legislature-idaho-higher-education-7fb4037a91122477b26ff0b34c87fe1a)** > > Political hostility to public education in the Republican-dominated Idaho Legislature is causing some businesses to doubt the wisdom of moving to or expanding in a state that habitually ranks at or near the bottom in what it spends on K-12 students... The very short version is that the Idaho legislature cut money from education funding recently and the group that pushed for it is planning on pushing to increase the cuts by nearly tenfold. Idaho business groups aren’t thrilled with this because they need an educated workforce and because their employees want their children to be educated, and if they cannot get that in Idaho, the businesses fear that people will move to other places. And the thing is, Idaho is already at the bottom of the educational barrel: > [@](#): > > The U.S. Department of Education’s Institute of Education Sciences for the 2018-2019 school year said only five states and the District of Columbia had worse high school graduation rates than Idaho’s 81%. The Idaho State Department of Education said the graduation rate rose to 82.1% for 2019-2020, a school year that included the arrival of the coronavirus pandemic, and the state eliminated some graduation requirements. > > According to the National Education Association, the $7,705 Idaho spent per student in the 2019-2020 school year ranked it last in the nation. The association also estimates the average national classroom teacher salary at $65,000. Idaho ranks 39th with an average salary of just under $53,000 and 35th in average starting salary at $38,000. How far will they go with this before reversing course? Will they ever reverse course? Post what you think the long-term situation will be, because we’re going to get a chance to see this play out, it looks like. The article notes that even employers with long-standing ties to the area are exploring their options with respect to other locations and/or actually starting operations elsewhere. ETA: I was gonna call the thread \*Idaho and education", but “vs.” seemed more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/2 "2021-12-15T18:03:21Z")
You have to understand that for red state governments that are dismantling K-12 and higher education, the exodus of employers that require significant numbers of college-educated workers is a feature not a bug. Red state Republicans used to make a lot of noise about “economic competitiveness” and the need to invest in education (among other things) to draw cutting-edge industries to their states. Every state had a notion to be “Silicon Hills” or “Silicon Plains” or “Silicon Swamp”. But what Republicans found to their alarm is that their efforts drew in a lot of former blue state residents whose politics didn’t necessarily line up with the GOP. Even worse, their own kids who were going off to college in records numbers started having these fancy-pants ideas like maybe their state didn’t have to be a conservative dystopia and maybe clean air and water and addressing inequality was worth some additional taxation and regulation. And so the GOP is throwing the engine into reverse. Much better to shed a couple of point of state GDP and promote agriculture, extractive industries, manufacturing and other industries that generally employer larger numbers of blue-collar workers than risk the wrong people with their high-falutin’ opinions gaining political strength. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/3 "2021-12-15T19:11:26Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Every state had a notion to be “Silicon Hills” or “Silicon Plains” or “Silicon Swamp”. Idaho did get a mini Silicon Valley in Boise with HP and Micron. However, the state is in a race to the bottom of Stupidity Barrell. Not only are they cutting higher ed funding, but they are also trying to destroy one of the larger regional community colleges from within: North Idaho College. The above article briefly mentions it, but the moronic board picked the wrasslin’ coach (no admin experience) as the interim “president”. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/4 "2021-12-15T19:40:00Z")
I was just going to mention NIC. The State Board of Education is having to review their accreditation because they fired their president without cause and a bunch of other people left. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/5 "2021-12-15T21:58:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And the thing is, Idaho is already at the bottom of the educational barrel Sez who? The Department of Education? Deep State. The NEA? That’s a union! While I can’t speak to Idaho, some of the people I knew in Montana would prefer that education be restricted to the four Rs (readin’, writin’, 'rithmetic and [their preferred] religion). Anything beyond those would be considered brainwashing. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/6 "2021-12-15T22:26:43Z")
Gee, you make it seem like growing food and making things is a bad idea. You can’t eat computer code. Anyways, which states are dismantling education? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/7 "2021-12-15T22:49:14Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Anyways, which states are dismantling education? [Florida, for example:](https://newrepublic.com/article/163817/desantis-republicans-end-public-education) > [@](#): > > In the privatized alternatives Republicans have pushed, critics say that the rapid expansion of vouchers—usage of which in Florida has [tripled](https://www.brookings.edu/research/are-low-quality-private-schools-on-the-rise-in-florida/) over the last decade—has led to a proliferation of low-quality “voucher schools”: cheap enough that vouchers mostly cover tuition but so poorly regulated that, as a 2017 [_Orlando Sentinel_](https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/os-florida-school-voucher-investigation-1018-htmlstory.html) investigation found, some schools hold classes in aging strip malls, falsify safety and health records, and employ teachers without college degrees. Florida has also long exempted private schools from the high-stakes, year-end testing that’s used as a cudgel against their public counterparts. […] > > “On one hand, they keep imposing new regulations on their public system. But on the other hand, they’re moving more and more kids into a completely unregulated school choice system where there’s no accountability at all.” […] > > Burris warned that other countries that have dismantled their public education systems, such as [Chile](https://theconversation.com/sweeping-reforms-set-to-end-for-profit-education-in-chile-26406), have found that it’s not an easy decision to undo. “It’s like Humpty Dumpty: Once you get the system to fall, you can’t put it back together again. And that’s what frightens me so much about what’s happening today. We really are in danger of losing public education, at least in red states.”⁠ [Idaho](https://www.idahostatejournal.com/opinion/columns/the-attack-on-public-education/article_dbd0c06c-5c67-5c89-9827-9cb910b675f5.html), as per the discussion in this thread: > [@](#): > > The radical right in Idaho politics has cleverly weaponized social science, and some whopping big lies, to continue their assault on public education. […] > > Part of that revolt was based on another huge lie. Legislators were told students at Boise State University were being forced to apologize for being “white.” A lengthy investigation by a Boise law firm revealed only one person making that claim. > > That individual, who was not a BSU student, “declined to identify any student and declined to describe in any detail what he has seen or heard from students,” the investigation found. Invitations sent to 2,820 students of diversity courses at BSU allowing them to report, anonymously, any incident supporting the complaint turned up zero comments. > > That didn’t keep the right-wing lawmakers from forcing a $2.5 million cut in funding to Idaho’s three largest universities to punish the schools for what the gross lie claimed they were doing. […] > > Education, when viewed from the right, is for two purposes only. The first is to equip students to be workers. The second is to indoctrinate students with only those thoughts acceptable to the radical right. > > In this way the far-right is advocating “uneducation,” rather than allowing students to learn about the real world they are growing up in. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/8 "2021-12-15T23:09:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Gee, you make it seem like growing food and making things is a bad idea. Making things is a great idea. Which is part of why education is so important. I’m not seeing where the disconnect is, here. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/9 "2021-12-16T00:06:34Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Gee, you make it seem like growing food and making things is a bad idea. No, although it’s a standard plank of Republican grievance culture these days to pretend that Democrats look down on blue collar work. A strong, diversified economy needs both tradesmen and tech entrepreneurs. But Republican legislatures are deliberately enacting policies to make their states unattractive to college-educated workers because they fear the political ramifications. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/10 "2021-12-16T00:08:10Z")
Fear is a big part of their outlook on life. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/11 "2021-12-16T00:23:14Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > A strong, diversified economy needs both tradesmen and tech entrepreneurs. Also, it’s not like modern agriculture doesn’t require education. [Most of the current growth in Idaho farming is in small “hobby” farms](https://www.postregister.com/business/shrinking-in-the-middle-while-small-and-large-idaho-farms-increase-mid-sized-farms-are/article_be31140b-0b13-5278-9b80-0db51e0fc06d.html) whose owners need to understand technical and commercial complexities of farm business, not just how to dig up a potato. [A large part of unskilled agricultural labor on large farms in Idaho is performed by seasonal and migrant workers,](https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/southern-idaho-farmworkers-stories-help-instagram/277-54b217dc-cb3a-44f0-a0b9-c9c7948786a5) who are not providing a significant amount of either votes or tax base in the state. The days when a state could realistically expect to prosper with a small educated elite managing a large resident population of docile minimally-educated manual laborers are pretty much over, ISTM. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/12 "2021-12-16T00:32:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Post what you think the long-term situation will be, More reliable Republican voters. Which is likely the entire point of the exercise in de-funding education. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/13 "2021-12-16T19:57:54Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > And so the GOP is throwing the engine into reverse. Much better to shed a couple of point of state GDP and promote agriculture, extractive industries, manufacturing and other industries that generally employer larger numbers of blue-collar workers than risk the wrong people with their high-falutin’ opinions gaining political strength. But you have to make sure that those blue-collar workers are NOT in a union! Because such union workers were a big voting block for Democrats for decades. And keeping out the unions means giving the workers decent wages, benefits, a safe workplace, etc. – all the things businesses want to avoid. Plus running a successful farm these days is pretty complicated, and requires more education than before. And the mining or drilling industries use complicated & expensive equipment – you want educated & trained workers operating that machinery. I’ve heard it said that any job that can be done with only a high school diploma can be replaced by computers o robots. An exaggeration, but getting closer all the time. The holdouts seem to be low-paid service jobs, but even there changes are reducing many of them. Like retail clerks (but Amazon), bank tellers (online banking), waitresses (delivery & take-out), etc. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/14 "2021-12-17T03:08:39Z")
Shit, my parents left Idaho in 1968 because the educational system was so piss poor. Can’t imagine what it’s like now. 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/15 "2021-12-17T03:18:40Z")
I went to school in Northern Idaho. You had to be on the Advanced Track to qualify for the algebra course…as a _senior_. ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/16 "2021-12-17T03:29:59Z")
Yeesh, I took algebra in the eighth grade here in Texas! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/17 "2021-12-17T15:33:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I went to school in Northern Idaho. I’m not too sure about that. Around here, it is North Idaho. Are you sure you went to school here? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/18 "2021-12-17T15:35:56Z")
Back in the 70’s it was Northern Idaho. Lived in Spirit Lake, school in Rathdrum. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/19 "2021-12-17T15:39:32Z")
Yeah, just yanking your chain. I’m not sure why North Idaho has taken over. Not a fan of it. I guess with the state of education in the state, “they” don’t understand the issue. Shouldn’t North and South Dakota be giving up two senators? Or should Idaho be gaining two? That is a scary thought! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109/20 "2021-12-17T16:17:17Z")
I once heard a local proudly say “I-dee-ho is the South of the North!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idaho-vs-education/956109.md?page=2)