# Ideal Age for becoming a Mother? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762 "2011-12-29T21:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/21 "2011-12-30T05:41:07Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Thank you. > > My hazing period should be over soon. Not if you continue to make unsupported assertions in GQ that run counter to every one else’s understanding of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/22 "2011-12-30T08:29:32Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > My hazing period should be over soon. There is no “hazing period”. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/23 "2011-12-30T13:14:32Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > We as a species aren’t evolved to go to school. And going to school past the age of 18 is still something most humans on this planet do not do, and even in the US today, [only about 30% of adults](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg) have completed a bachelor’s degree. > > Besides, the OP was speculating on the physical childbearing prime years of a woman being at odds with the current social/economical take on when a woman “should” have children. Clearly the current mainstream middle-class view is mid-20s or so, or even later (as you suggest) into the early 30s for many upper middle class people who either treat their 20s as extended adolescence (“I only just got down with school at age 21 and deserve a decade of fun single time”). That is not what is being discussed here - not whether an 18 year old “should” get pregnant, or whether teenage pregnancy is more or less frequent now versus 20 or 50 or 150 or 1,000 or 10,000 years ago, but whether evolutionarily speaking that is when her body is best able to do so. > > The answer depends on what is meant by “best” - as others have pointed out already: best for the child who will be born of the pregnancy, best for the mother’s health for the specific pregnancy, or best for _ **the highest number of surviving adult children being born of the woman over her entire lifetime?** _ That last measure is the real yardstick, evolutionarily speaking. If you disagree, just say so. You won’t hurt my feelings if you simply disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/24 "2011-12-30T14:53:09Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If you disagree, just say so. You won’t hurt my feelings if you simply disagree. Do not understand that your answer was not responsive to the question? (“evolutionary ideal age”). That is what numerous people are trying to tell you. And no one is going to “simply disagree” in GQ where providing a detailed fact-based answer with citations to back it up is the **preferred** mode opf response on this forum. If you just want someone to respond, “no u r wrongggggg!~!~!” and are not interested in fact-based discussion perhaps you’ll be happier elsewhere. Such as in IMHO, as suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/25 "2011-12-30T15:22:37Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I’m not sure what you’re saying here. If you’re claiming that there are more teenage mothers today, your claim is exactly opposite the truth. The percentage of teenage women who have babies (in the U.S.) is the smallest that it’s been in something like fifty or sixty years, and that’s also approximately true in many other countries too. **Paul** said “young, unmarried mothers”. While the rate of teenage pregnancy has dropped, the rate of out-of-wedlock births has sharply increased, because the number of teenage marriages has sharply decreased. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/26 "2011-12-30T15:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Ideal Age for becoming a Mother? This thread title doesn’t include the word “evolution” I’ve been responding to the thread OP, not its modification. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/27 "2011-12-30T16:09:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Paul** said “young, unmarried mothers”. While the rate of teenage pregnancy has dropped, the rate of out-of-wedlock births has sharply increased, because the number of teenage marriages has sharply decreased. Really? Or is it just the case that teens now keep their children, something not usually done 30 or 40 years ago? Until about the 70’s or 80’s, generally teen mothers were expected to put their child up for adoption in North America, and I assume in much of Europe? Plus, we have a much more open society in terms of birth control and sex education, along with the warnings about AIDS, which has also resulted in a much higher rate of contraception use. From a quick google, this: [http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf) > [@](#): > > Pregnancy rates among teenagers and young women in the United States rose steadily from the early 1970s to the early 1990s, increasing by about 21% among all women younger than 20 and 17% among women aged 20–24 during those two decades. At the same time, the birthrate among these women remained relatively unchanged until the late 1980s, when it began to rise. From 1973, when abortion was legalized, to 1990, the abortion rate rose substantially. > > By 1990 or 1991, the pregnancy rate among teenagers and young women had begun a steady and consistent decline. A decrease in both birth and abortion rates among these women signaled that both intended and unintended pregnancy rates were declining among these age-groups. Recent research concluded that almost all of the decline in the pregnancy rate between 1995 and 2002 among 18–19-year-olds was attributable to increased contraceptive use.1 Among women aged 15–17, about one-quarter of the decline during the same period was attributable to reduced sexual activity and three-quarters to increased contraceptive use.1 Admittedly, it makes no comment about married vs. unmaried. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/28 "2011-12-30T16:11:31Z")
Really Not All That Bright Writes: \> While the rate of teenage pregnancy has dropped, the rate of out-of-wedlock \> births has sharply increased, because the number of teenage marriages has \> sharply decreased. Do you have any statistics that show that the (per capita) number of out-of-wedlock births to teenage mothers has increased? I can find statistics that say that the (per capita) number of births to teenage mothers has been steadily decreasing. I can find statistics that say that the percentage of teenage mothers who are unmarried is increasing. One of those two statistics would lead you to expect that the (per capita) number of out-of-wedlock births to teenage mothers would be decreasing and the other would lead you to expect that the (per capita) number of out-of-wedlock births to teenage mothers would be increasing. Which way does the statistic actually go? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/29 "2011-12-30T16:20:41Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/30 "2011-12-30T16:36:39Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > This thread title doesn’t include the word “evolution” I’ve been responding to the thread OP, not its modification. It is customary to read the content of the OP, as well as the title. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/31 "2011-12-31T00:16:38Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Really? Or is it just the case that teens now keep their children, something not usually done 30 or 40 years ago? Until about the 70’s or 80’s, generally teen mothers were expected to put their child up for adoption in North America, and I assume in much of Europe? Plus, we have a much more open society in terms of birth control and sex education, along with the warnings about AIDS, which has also resulted in a much higher rate of contraception use. Children put up for adoption still count towards the birthrate. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Which way does the statistic actually go? There was a thread a while back where **Bricker** invited people to prove some of **Starving Artist** ’s beliefs were silly, where this was debated and cited to death. [This post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11729232&postcount=13) sums up the statistics well. ---
**Author:** ![smokey78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@smokey78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smokey78)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/32 "2011-12-31T00:27:28Z")
The reason for early menarche isn’t natural evolution…it was the rise of industrial pollution…toxins in the air for example, pumping hormones into chickens, was it ever proven that this didn’t affect the diet of young girls? And that girls are getting plumper and fatter, which ignites puberty faster. Wasn’t it unheard of of a girl 100 yrs ago to have menarche at 9 and 10? Why wouldn’t (biologically speaking) be better for teens to have babies? The eggs are fresher and haven’t been thru the wringer from toxins in the environment, food, etc. for over 10-15 years? Isn’t that why Down Syndrome is more common in older moms? ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/33 "2011-12-31T00:32:43Z")
I don’t have a cite, but a doctor once told me that the best age for a woman to have a child, purely in terms of the mother’s physical health, is 21-23 (which matches what Rhubarbarin said). His rationale was that up to then your body may still be developing, so a pregnancy at 18 is likely to take a more severe toll on you than a pregnancy at 22 - thus possibly making future pregnancies more difficult, as well. And if you’re even a few years older, your recovery time will be longer and you won’t bounce back as completely. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/34 "2011-12-31T01:07:42Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > I don’t have a cite, but a doctor once told me that the best age for a woman to have a child, purely in terms of the mother’s physical health, is 21-23 (which matches what Rhubarbarin said). His rationale was that up to then your body may still be developing, so a pregnancy at 18 is likely to take a more severe toll on you than a pregnancy at 22 - thus possibly making future pregnancies more difficult, as well. And if you’re even a few years older, your recovery time will be longer and you won’t bounce back as completely. This is similar to what I was told. I’m 31 and we’re currently undergoing fertility treatments. We’ve had a few sidebar discussions with our RE about fertility in general and she said early 20’s is the ideal time to conceive. As said already, fertility starts to decline around 25 or so. She also mentioned that the increase in fertility issues in North America can be correlated to women waiting until they are older before starting their families (thought there is also a correlation between our lifestyles and fertility as well). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/35 "2011-12-31T01:08:53Z")
> [@smokey78](#): > > The reason for early menarche isn’t natural evolution…it was the rise of industrial pollution…toxins in the air for example, pumping hormones into chickens, was it ever proven that this didn’t affect the diet of young girls? That’s not really how it works, you know. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/36 "2011-12-31T01:49:19Z")
Simple answer: Just one year older than the woman actually is. When she gets the raise/promotion at her job. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/37 "2011-12-31T03:24:03Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Why are you busting my balls on this? If you disagree, just say so. No, I’m not an obstetrician. Didn’t say I was. I wasn’t trying to “bust your balls” but I have no idea whether or not I disagree with you. All you offered was an unsupported assertion - without an argument and (ideally) supporting evidence, there’s no way I can form an opinion on your claim. You could be right. I don’t know. And that’s why I asked for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/38 "2011-12-31T04:01:55Z")
The “evolutionary idea” means nothing in real life. It’s not what is “normal and natural” for humans and everything else is aberrant. It’s what was useful to humans a long, long time ago. Take, for example, the number of kids people have. In terms of raw genetic fitness, it makes sense to have as many kids as humanly possible. So why do countries have fewer and fewer kids as they develop? Well, in developed societies children do not contribute to wealth as farmhands and cottage-industry labor, but do cost a lot of money in education. It becomes better to have a smaller number of children and invest heavily in their education. What would the alternative be? Most people who have a passel of kids in today’s world put all of their kids at a real disadvantage, so it’s not like you can just decide to “follow the evolutionary ideal.” Nor would any of us be excited to live in the kind of world where having a lot of kids gives an advantage. By nature, this kind of world involves less specialization of labor, which means less efficiency, which means we’d be poorer, sicker and hungrier. It wouldn’t make sense to get poorer, sicker and hungrier just to live up to some “evolutionary ideal.” So in terms of “having the highest number of surviving children,” yeah, this plan isn’t great. But in terms of “having children who will likely reproduce,” right now having a small number of children is a much better plan. The world where having the raw highest number of surviving children was advantageous is pretty much over. I think the same goes with delayed childbirth. Given that women now have almost 100% control of their reproduction, and women are overwhelmingly choosing later childbirth, I trust that there is a damn good reason for it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/39 "2011-12-31T17:39:30Z")
Really Not All That Bright, nothing in the statistics in the post that you linked to nor in the link in that post answered the question that I asked. This question is the following: Over the past fifty or so years (in the U.S.), what has the (per capita) number of births to unmarried teenage mothers been for each year? By the (per capita) number, I mean that I don’t want to just know the raw number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in each year. If you tell me that the raw number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in 1961 was 892,274 and the raw number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in 2011 was 899,381 and then say that this proves that it’s going up, my reply will be that the population was considerably greater in 2011 than in 1961, so you would expect the number to go up. If instead of giving the number for teenage (i.e., 13 to 19) women, you give me the number for those who are 15 to 19 or some such, that’s O.K. If instead of giving me the number for each year, you give me the average over each five year subperiod of the past fifty or so years, that’s O.K. That will tell me roughly what I want to know. What I want to know then is the ratio (number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in year X in the U.S.)/(population of the U.S. in year X), which can be then compared with the ratio (number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in year Y in the U.S.)/(population of the U.S. in year Y). Actually, even more precisely, what would be useful is the ratio (number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in year X in the U.S.)/(number of teenage women in the U.S. in year X), which can be then compared with the ratio (number of births to unmarried teenage mothers in year Y in the U.S.)/(number of teenage women in the U.S. in year Y). And don’t just link to a huge chart and tell me I can find the statistics there. Give me the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762/40 "2011-12-31T18:14:12Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > It is customary to read the content of the OP, as well as the title. Also, for the “General Questions” forum to be fact based, not opinion based. A general polling type question “when do you think is the best time for a woman to have children?” would be found in the IMHO forum. Please don’t feel this is “busting your balls” or being hostile, **Theophane** , you’re just not following board convention. Read the entire Original Post and frame a reply in the context of the forum. Factual questions seeking evidence based replies go in GQ, potential flame war debates go in Great Debates, soliciting opinions go in IMHO, flame wars go in The Pit, asking about board policies (including why people were banned or posts removed) to to About This Message Board, and anything else goes to MPSIMS. “Simply say so” when if one disagrees is explicitly NOT the point of the GQ (or GD) forums, too, just as “simply saying so” in giving an opinion as a reply is not going to be accepted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideal-age-for-becoming-a-mother/607762.md?page=3)