# Identifiably Jewish movie/TV villains? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825 "2002-12-15T01:53:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/61 "2002-12-16T15:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > \*\* called prople “squints.” \*\* Damn, that’s _mean_. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/62 "2002-12-16T16:30:18Z")
The main villain in _Titanic_ was Jewish. You know, Iceberg. (ba-dumph crash) Ok, I’ll go away now… ---
**Author:** ![Protesilaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/63 "2002-12-16T16:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > \*\*_ **Dracula** _, Boris Karloff, Universal, 1931. > > Roughly as large a libel as _ **Birth Of A Nation** _ - the Count wears a Star of David pendant (until recently, at least, this was usually cropped out of the scene when shown on TV). The “Universal’s Monters” series re-release version is intact. \*\* I also have a copy of this, and I decided to check it out for myself using a professional-quality tape deck. You can get some excellent frames of Dracula’s medallion right before he says, “A spider spinning his web for the unwary fly. The blood is the life, Mr. Renfield.” The shots are good enough that you can see, in each of the six ‘troughs’ on the star, there’s a point sticking out from an inner star on the medallion. I’d have to say that it didn’t look like the Star of David to me, but a medallion similar in shape. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/64 "2002-12-16T19:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*And I repeat my challenge: give me a list of Methodist or Unitarian villains. In comparison to those, the list of Jewish villains is quite large. In comparison to black (or Asian) villains, the list of Jewish villains is smaller. The question is what conclusions you draw from these. Your OP draws the conclusion that Jews control the media. I say that is nonsense. A more logical conclusion is that race is more obvious in a movie character than is religion. > \*\* First off, CKD, my original post’s intent was to collect information to debunk the “Jews control the media” argument, not bolster it. I’m sure experience has made you wary of anyone who puts the words “Jewish” and “villain” in the same subject header, but honest, my motives are pure. As for your challenge: I’m not up to it. Depending on who you ask, I’d say that Jewish heritage has somewhat more in common with Black heritage than with Methodism or Unitarianism; my education skipped over the Methodist pogroms and the Unitarian Middle Passage. Maybe you can step up to the plate and tell me about these fascinating forgotten chunks of history. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/65 "2002-12-16T19:45:18Z")
The op begins this by hedging with a “this isn’t _me_ saying this but …” and then defends the equating of religious orientation with race, and the premise that a paucity of villians characterized as a particular religion would be proof of that religion’s control of the media. And then says that other religions’ representations or lack thereof is immaterial. Talk about BS alarms going off. To continue to equate religion with race sets off more than my BS alarms. As general rule, religion is rarely mentioned as a character feature in TV and movie characters, and less so for villians than for heros. Extremely rarely is it brought up as a casual feature about the villian. It takes an effort to put it there. How often are you going to make a special effort to dis any particular religious group? Not unless it is critical to the plot. Race is unavoidably identifiable. And if you are going to do a movie about modern urban life, or organized crime, it would be hard to do it without having both heros and villians identifiably Black or White or Asian and so on. That Fagin was a Dickensian antisemitic stereotype is being sensitive? “An impressive piece of observational acting…”? Well if you believe that he was observing mythical Jewish moneylenders in an England in which they did not exist, I guess. What do you think he was observing, may I ask? > [@](#): > > Does all this make me an Anti Semite? I would never presume to know what motivates someone else’s actions or intent. But things do start to smell bad around here. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/66 "2002-12-16T20:47:14Z")
Many years ago on SOAP, Italian-Americans became irate over the use of Italian mob stereotypes. The solution the producers came up with was to write the characters off in favor of a Jewish gangster stereotype, Charlie Lefkowitz (played by Jewish character actor/former OSS agent/ future Boss Hogg Sorrell Booke) with a daughter, Elaine (Dinah Manoff, later of EMPTY NEST) who was the epitome of the classless Jewish American princess stereotype. Only when Elaine became a member of the WASP Dallas family did she become at all likeable. I haven’t watched enough STAR TREK to know from Ferenghi, but did anybody else notice how much the goblins who ran Gringott’s Bank in HARRY POTTER resembled Nazi propaganda caricatures? I’m surprised there wasn’t more protest. (I’m glad there wasn’t, but I’m surprised.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/67 "2002-12-16T20:51:03Z")
Real people who’ve been portrayed as villainous in films: Steve Rubell in 54 (Gentile actor Mike Myers [Linda Richman notwithstanding] in a performance that should have gotten an Oscar nod) Roy Cohn in CITIZEN COHN (outstanding performance by James Woods) Chaim Rumkowski in LODZ GHETTO (played by author Jerzy Kozinsky) And of course all the villains in the Jesus movies were Jews! (Joke- don’t spam me.) ---
**Author:** ![fatmac98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fatmac98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatmac98)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/68 "2002-12-16T21:43:15Z")
OK, staying out of the debate that has started on this one, I think that Cousin Avi, and Doug the Head from Snatch qualify. . . ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/69 "2002-12-17T00:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fatmac98 \* > \*\*OK, staying out of the debate that has started on this one, I think that Cousin Avi, and Doug the Head from Snatch qualify. . . \*\* Well, maybe, but they are about the goodest bad guys in a film filled with bad, bad guys. And even the good guys are kind of bad guys. In the film _Rhinestone_ (the classic film that romantically paired Dolly Parton with Sylvester Stalone) Ron Silver plays his sleazy club owner who wants to jump the bones of Ms. Parton as clearly Jewish. Played for yuks, in _Blazing Saddles_ the corrupt and incompetent governor played by Mel Brooks was Jewish. For that matter Max Bliastock (sp) the delightful central character in _The Producers_ is clearly Jewish and he is a crook, a delightful one to be sure, but a crook none the less. In literature, both Fagin and Dracula are discribed as clearly Jewish (yes, yes, I know, we are talking about Hollywood not about the sensibilities of Bram Stoker and Charles Dickens - So I read a couple books, so sue me! {I’m Jewish too, I can say this]). TV (before we get off on this - yes, we have Jews in Colorado, too) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/70 "2002-12-17T00:59:15Z")
Yeah, TV, but you ever been hugged by an inebreated Lubavitvh Rabbi on Purim? ;j ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/71 "2002-12-17T01:11:17Z")
Okay. my bullsh\*t detector just went off. I see **nothing** in Stoker’s novel to give the slightest hint of a suggestion of an insinuation that Dracula is Jewish. There is no way (AFAIK) that a Transylvanian/Romanian noble, even a fictional one, could have been Jewish. You’re gonna have to back this up with some hard evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bomzaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Bomzaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bomzaway)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/72 "2002-12-17T01:35:32Z")
> [@](#): > > OK, staying out of the debate that has started on this one, I think that Cousin Avi, and Doug the Head from Snatch qualify. . . No they don’t. If you recall, at the beginning of the film, they say that Doug the Head _acted_ Jewish because in the diamond business, it was good to be Jewish. Since he wasn’t, I can only assume that Avi wasn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/73 "2002-12-17T04:41:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay. my bullsh\*t detector just went off. > I see nothing in Stoker’s novel to give the slightest hint of a suggestion of an insinuation that Dracula is Jewish. > There is no way (AFAIK) that a Transylvanian/Romanian noble, even a fictional one, could have been Jewish. > You’re gonna have to back this up with some hard evidence. I know this is slightly OT but wasn’t the historical figure that the fictional Dracula is based on (i.e., Vlad the Impaler) notorious for not having exactly the most enlightened views on Jews (I seem to recall reading about some nasty business involving nails and skullcaps). Also, Boris Karloff was not in the 1931 version of “Dracula.” ---
**Author:** ![fatmac98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@fatmac98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatmac98)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/74 "2002-12-17T05:11:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bomzaway \* > \*\*No they don’t. If you recall, at the beginning of the film, they say that Doug the Head _acted_ Jewish because in the diamond business, it was good to be Jewish. Since he wasn’t, I can only assume that Avi wasn’t either. \*\* Shit! You are exactly right. I knew I should have stayed the hell out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/75 "2002-12-17T05:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Rieux \* > \*\*I see **nothing** in Stoker’s novel to give the slightest hint of a suggestion of an insinuation that Dracula is Jewish. \*\* I don’t really either, unless you interpret the physical description of him as Jewish, which some people do: > [@](#): > > "he gazed at a tall, thin man, with a beaky nose and black moustache and pointed beard But, I don’t think that’s really proof. However, the agent that arranges for Dracula to leave London to go back to Romania is Jewish: > [@](#): > > We found Hildesheim in his office, a Hebrew of rather the Adelphi Theatre type, with a nose like a sheep, and a fez. His arguments were pointed with specie, we doing the punctuation, and with a little bargaining he told us what he knew ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/76 "2002-12-17T07:07:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*In the film Rhinestone (the classic film that romantically paired Dolly Parton with Sylvester Stalone) Ron Silver plays his sleazy club owner who wants to jump the bones of Ms. Parton as clearly Jewish. > \*\* Actually, that was Ron Leibman, also the bad guy in **Mad Magazine’s Up The Academy.** I saw both of these movies first run, in the theater, at full non-matinee price. {SOB!} ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/77 "2002-12-17T12:39:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Yeah, TV, but you ever been hugged by an inebreated Lubavitvh Rabbi on Purim? > ;j \*\* Now that you mention it…No I haven’t. But I did get a pinch from a lady reform Rabbi on Mogan David. And **Captain Amazing** , that’s exactly what I am basing my interpretation on. It’s the classic stereotype of the Eastern European Jew that people like Hitler so loved to represent in propoganda films and leaflets. And I have always found it significant that Dracula was repulsed by the Christian cross which struck me as a direct shot at Jews. And **Krokodil** I’m sorry about that double feature. My heart goes out to you. You didn’t stay all the way through did you? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2002, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/78 "2002-12-17T13:19:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NDP \* > \*\*I(I seem to recall reading about some nasty business involving nails and skullcaps). > \*\* I believe those were turbans. ---
**Author:** ![Yeah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/dbc845/32.png) [@Yeah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeah)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/79 "2003-02-16T01:21:10Z")
Roy Cohn in Citizen Cohn (1992) Nathan Leopold, Jr. and Richard Loeb in Swoon (1992) Judd Steiner and Artie Strauss in Compulsion (1959) ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identifiably-jewish-movie-tv-villains/142825/80 "2003-02-16T04:42:53Z")
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