# Identify this Native American relic. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 8, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260 "2016-05-08T01:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/1 "2016-05-08T01:26:16Z")
[This relic](http://s9.photobucket.com/user/spoke-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/received_10208156311612732.jpeg.html?sort=3&o=0) was plowed up in Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia. What are we looking at here? Knife blade? Spear point? Any further thoughts on classification or dating? So far, I haven’t found anything on the interwebs that matches precisely the style of this point. Information, please. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/2 "2016-05-08T02:12:21Z")
It’s a notched spear point. I don’t think Clovis Points were notched, so not that old. Even though it’s not an exact match for any of these notched projectile point images it has the basic form and there was endless variation in the size and shape of arrowheads, so probably the same for larger points also. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/3 "2016-05-08T02:20:47Z")
How do you distinguish between a knife blade and a spear point? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/4 "2016-05-08T02:43:45Z")
I paid several thousand 1970s dollars to answer this question! Bilateral symmetry, size, and well-shaped notches in the base for hafting? Spear point, obviously (insufficient bearing surface for a knife). Graceful enough to be Clovis, but somebody wanted the notches for extra security holding it to the shaft–people are endlessly creative when dinner is at stake. Given the location, anytime before the early-19th century BCE, but also given how it was for BIG game, not whitetails, quite a lot earlier. Definite enough for ya? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/5 "2016-05-08T02:57:25Z")
I’m looking at the image on a tiny screen, and I’m almost completely ignorant of this topic. But, that looks to be in fantastic condition. Any chance it’s a modern reproduction, or the work of a hobbyist knapper? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/6 "2016-05-08T03:03:26Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > How do you distinguish between a knife blade and a spear point? A spear is going one way, lengthwise into the prey. A knife is going sideways, which puts a lot of force at the fulcrum point, between the blade and the haft. There must be either an extended base to the blade, pushing the fulcrum point further back to where your hand or the haft is helping to hold it together, or an awful lot of string or gunk holding it together. Clovis points, f’rinstance, are gracile, beautiful, and made to be bound to a shaft at the base with glue and string, and intended to go straight into the target. They are not made to deal with lateral forces, like the prey twisting. This guy planned around the animal moving, and designed his point to suit. Clever boy. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/7 "2016-05-08T03:11:42Z")
Oh, and extra-large prey + Georgia = around 8-10k ago. A sweet point like that we’re thinking 7-10 minutes of effort. He wouldn’t want to lose it, but he wouldn’t dig for it. Which is why we find nice points all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/8 "2016-05-08T03:46:12Z")
**Bayard** , I agree it is in beautiful condition, but no, it is not a reproduction. It was plowed up in the process of making a garden. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/9 "2016-05-08T03:48:51Z")
So, giant ground sloths, bears, that sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/10 "2016-05-08T03:50:09Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh, and extra-large prey + Georgia = around 8-10k ago. > > A sweet point like that we’re thinking 7-10 minutes of effort. He wouldn’t want to lose it, but he wouldn’t dig for it. Which is why we find nice points all over the place. How about bears more recently? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/11 "2016-05-08T04:43:37Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How about bears more recently? Maybe, but bears are more a specialty prey. Try thinking like someone who is as much prey as predator. You will avoid taking on prey more likely to kill you. This is a problem I will take on tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/12 "2016-05-08T04:56:12Z")
Thanks for all the info, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/13 "2016-05-08T05:00:22Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How about bears more recently? Actually? Me? I’d send friends them to a more-informant site. Nothing professional, amy, ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/14 "2016-05-08T05:16:58Z")
WTF. Do not leave multiple theadz open, Duh, ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/15 "2016-05-08T05:32:19Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Graceful enough to be Clovis, but somebody wanted the notches for extra security holding it to the shaft–people are endlessly creative when dinner is at stake. [Clovis points](http://www.lithiccastinglab.com/images/clovispointssixgrouplarge.jpg) have fluting (grooves) on the side so they can be hafted to a shaft. It’s much later than Clovis. ---
**Author:** ![Shoikan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Shoikan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoikan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/16 "2016-05-09T13:23:27Z")
That’s a spear point, not a relic, relics are parts of the body of a saint or things used by one. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/17 "2016-05-09T13:28:56Z")
> [@Shoikan](#): > > That’s a spear point, not a relic, relics are parts of the body of a saint or things used by one. While that is one definition of relic, it isn’t the only one. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): relic noun 1. a surviving memorial of something past. 2. an object having interest by reason of its age or its association with the past: a museum of historic relics. 3. a surviving trace of something: a custom that is a relic of paganism. 4.relics. remaining parts or fragments. the remains of a deceased person. 4. something kept in remembrance; souvenir; memento. 5. Ecclesiastical. (especially in the Roman Catholic and Greek churches) the body, a part of the body, or some personal memorial of a saint, martyr, or other sacred person, preserved as worthy of veneration. 6. a once widespread linguistic form that survives in a limited area but is otherwise obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/18 "2016-05-09T15:00:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s a notched spear point. I don’t think Clovis Points were notched, so not that old. > > Even though it’s not an exact match for any of these notched projectile point images it has the basic form and there was endless variation in the size and shape of arrowheads, so probably the same for larger points also. More specifically a side notched dove tail or turkey tail. And I’d call it an artifact, not a relic. Might be worth $200 or more depending on condition and proof of where i was found. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/19 "2016-05-09T15:19:40Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Maybe, but bears are more a specialty prey. Try thinking like someone who is as much prey as predator. You will avoid taking on prey more likely to kill you. This is a problem I will take on tomorrow. That would leave panthers and humans as the largest prey I know about in that area. And it’s pretty big too, so maybe you are alluding to it being more for protection than hunting? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260/20 "2016-05-09T15:24:57Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > More specifically a side notched dove tail or turkey tail. And I’d call it an artifact, not a relic. Might be worth $200 or more depending on condition and proof of where i was found. [Here are some showing similar design.](http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12081/12154339_1.jpg?v=8CED5C2950122F0) The one in the OP has a wider base so I’ll guess it was meant to be attached to a heavier shaft. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identify-this-native-american-relic/754260.md?page=2)