# Identity, politics, and the in-fighting of the left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2019, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199 "2019-11-09T10:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/561 "2020-09-11T15:18:10Z")
I can only conclude, based on the results of the last election and the continued support of Trump, that the identity of bigotry is more important to a significantly large population than the identity of the Democratic Party platform which is more encompassing across multiple areas of socio-economic, global and environmental objectives. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/562 "2020-09-11T15:26:51Z")
I honestly think that the of identity politics that have come from both parties, the GOP has sold the catering of the Democratic Party has been sold as an attack on the identity of the majority of the GOP. Attacks require defense. IMO, if the Democrats wanted to increase support for their side , they need to figure out how to be more inclusive. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/563 "2020-09-11T15:40:17Z")
There comes a point where a political party has to decide if it will stand for something right/good/just or try to cater to every flavor and stripe of bigotry and feel good lie. I don’t know which current Democratic Party platform principle I would be willing to jettison in order to court a fickle vote on the right, especially one that voted for Trump. Maybe you can suggest one that Democrats should compromise on, as an example, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/564 "2020-09-11T15:46:21Z")
I don’t think they need to jettison anyone or anything to capture people like me, other than what is seen as an attack on MY identity. I’ve been called a racist and a bigot even though I disagree with both assessments simply because the way I would wish to help those who don’t have as much differs from how they would help them. But racism has become the easy out, for anyone to criticize anything. It is currently overused as are the excuses that stem from that accusation. I classify myself as fiscally conservative, socially liberal. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/565 "2020-09-11T15:53:50Z")
So, catering to the identity politics of the white, straight, christian male is a great idea. But acknowledging those who are left out when only catering to that group is a bad thing. Sadly, it is quite possible that the American populace is selfish and self absorbed enough that, politically speaking, you may be right. We’ll find out this November, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/566 "2020-09-11T15:55:08Z")
Especially when they are encouraged to do so by those who benefit from saying, “Lets you and him fight”. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/567 "2020-09-11T16:07:10Z")
As I stated, and you mis-attributed again (surprise surprise). I stated with no uncertainty, that they would simply need to stop attacking and include me, not cater to me. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/568 "2020-09-11T16:17:00Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I don’t think they need to jettison anyone or anything to capture people like me, other than what is seen as an attack on MY identity. I don’t agree that there are any attacks on your identity. I really don’t get this idea that what other people do over there is attacking what you are doing over here. Does SSM threaten your marriage? > [@Kearsen1](#): > > I’ve been called a racist and a bigot even though I disagree with both assessments simply because the way I would wish to help those who don’t have as much differs from how they would help them. But racism has become the easy out, for anyone to criticize anything. It is currently overused as are the excuses that stem from that accusation. I see this all the time. When someone says that a policy that you support is racially biased, and that supporting it is supporting a racist policy, people turn it around and _call_ it an attack on themselves. That being told that a policy that they support is racist means that they are being accused of racism. I’m sure that someone somewhere has called you a racist or a bigot. People sometimes use insults when they can’t form arguments. But, I’m also sure that you have felt that you have been called a racist of bigot more often than you actually have. And then there are the times when I might call someone else a racist, and because you have some similarity to them, you think that I’m calling you one as well. If I say that republicans who support the KKK are racist, then many republicans who do not support the KKK are told that I am talking about them too. See Clinton’s deplorable comment, where she specified exactly what traits made one deplorable, but all they took from that was Trump supporters. Especially when we have media outlets that are created specifically for the purpose of riling people up. They are there to tell people how to feel and how to react. They are there to explain that when you said that you were against a certain policy, those who criticized you were calling you racist. > [@Kearsen1](#): > > As I stated, and you mis-attributed again (surprise surprise). I stated with no uncertainty, that they would simply need to stop attacking and include me, not cater to me. Given how you keep accusing me of attacking you and mis-attributing you, when I am doing nothing of the sort, when I was in fact agreeing with you, I don’t know if it is possible to do anything that would make you think that you are no longer under attack. And I don’t know how it is possible to “include” you without catering to you. What exactly is it that you want? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/569 "2020-09-11T16:58:46Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > As I stated, and you mis-attributed again (surprise surprise). I stated with no uncertainty, that they would simply need to stop attacking and include me, not cater to me. Same question as k9…: What do you need to feel included by the Dems? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/570 "2020-09-11T17:01:52Z")
To vote with them? I thought that was the entire point. Are we now going to argue whether or not politics used to be more inclusive? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/571 "2020-09-11T17:04:24Z")
What specifically would the democrats have to start doing or stop doing to make you feel included. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/572 "2020-09-11T17:12:40Z")
I think you read @QuickSilver’s question as “_Why_ do you need to feel included by the Dems?”, rather than “_What_ do you need to feel included by the Dems?” ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/573 "2020-09-11T17:19:15Z")
I think a few things: Support realistic second amendment gun regulations, silence the overt gun grabbers Be the fiscally prudent and responsible “conservative” party Stop with the identity politics where everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a racist (this is probably the single biggest issue right now) Some of the other things aren’t really party affiliated but they would also help me vote for more across the aisles types of things like bring back pork and the ability to give more than a single winner on issues. SSM, trans stuff, abortion (I’m fine with where it is now), all of the liberal social issues I have no problem with, except for how to pay for things. To be honest, doing the things on my list would likely involve you stopping the catering to some of the more fringe groups so it might not be a trade off you are willing to make, but I can assure you there are a lot of folks like me. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/574 "2020-09-11T17:27:47Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Stop with the identity politics where everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a racist (this is probably the single biggest issue right now) But this is mostly made up. Sure, it’s what Rush Limbaugh (and Donald Trump, for that matter) want you to believe, but it’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/575 "2020-09-11T17:27:57Z")
And you are right, I did ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/576 "2020-09-11T17:29:33Z")
This is the type of attitude that just loses me. It isn’t made up to me. Period. And I am the only one that matters regarding what I think or feel. I don’t listen to Rush or Fox, or Trump. So you can either listen, or keep trying to pigeonhole me. I’m ok with either. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/577 "2020-09-11T17:31:54Z")
I’m listening. But when you’ve made the case before, what you’ve attributed to the Democrats at large, with regards to supposedly calling white men racist or anyone who disagrees with them racist, you’ve generally failed to provide good evidence IMO. You’ve lumped in nuanced criticisms or challenging discussions into very simplistic (and inaccurate) attacks on white men who disagree, based on my memory of these discussions. I challenge you to reconsider this notion you have, and open yourself to reasonable and challenging discussion about these challenging topics. It may not be comfortable, but rarely will it be insulting. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/578 "2020-09-11T17:33:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then how on Earth did Trump win? He certainly made no effort at all to “capture everyone” with his message. Are supposed “identity politics” only bad when practiced by Democrats? I’d say that identity politics is a bad thing when practised by either party, but it’s a worse _electoral strategy_ to cater to minority identities rather than majority ones. Trump didn’t try to capture everyone, but he did abandon some longstanding Republican policies like free trade in order to appeal to Democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/579 "2020-09-11T17:35:33Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’d say that identity politics is a bad thing when practised by either party, but it’s a worse _electoral strategy_ to cater to minority identities rather than majority ones. > > Trump didn’t try to capture everyone, but he did abandon some longstanding Republican policies like free trade in order to appeal to Democratic voters. If fair and decent policies for black, brown, and other people of color is “catering to minorities”, then the Democrats would lose many, many voters like me if they stopped advocating this. This is, rightly, fundamental to the modern Democratic party. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/580 "2020-09-11T17:41:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If fair and decent policies for black, brown, and other people of color is “catering to minorities”, then the Democrats would lose many, many voters like me if they stopped advocating this. This is, rightly, fundamental to the modern Democratic party. Just advocate fair and decent policies for everyone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199.md?page=30)