# Identity, politics, and the in-fighting of the left **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2019, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199 "2019-11-09T10:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 495
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/495 "2020-07-30T22:52:20Z")
> [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > So do you believe it is not possible to agree with your “enemy” on anything? I feel like you don’t seem to grasp the possibility that a lot of people are only “allying” with the worst of the worst on this specific issue of whether an environment conducive to open discourse is being threatened - we are not agreeing with them on anything else. What other issues, exactly, are moderates aligning with “the enemy” on? > > Here’s an analogy for you: I think chemical weapons are abhorrent and should be banned from any sort of use. Nazis, who extensively used chemical weapons against jews, are now having chemical weapons used against them and are now calling for their ban. Am I suddenly allied with the Nazis because now both of us are against the use of chemical weapons? It doesn’t matter if the Nazis are being hypocritical about their stance against chemical weapons since they used them in the past, or if you are dubious whether the Nazis are actually against the use of chemical weapons or they just don’t like them used against themselves. The point is some people think chemical weapons (or cancel culture) are a bad thing, even if used against Nazis. Others think chemical weapons may be OK to use in the most extreme cases (eg. perhaps against actual Nazis), but feel like they are being over-used (I think I fall more in this category wrt. cancel culture) - eg. chemical weapons are being used against regular German citizens, the Swiss, and Americans who are against entering the war against the Nazis, or even soldiers fighting the Nazis who made an innocuous comment complementing Nazi architecture. Your stance is coming across as “it’s sweet that chemical weapons are being used against Nazis now, who cares that anti-war Americans are also getting gassed, Jewish people have been getting gassed for ages”. But “canceling” just means not reading, not shopping, not listening, not watching (and encouraging others to do the same)… it’s not remotely comparable to WMDs. As for moderates - most are just fine. Only a relative few (and I doubt their commitment to centrism given the following) are allying with the truly despicable. I’m talking about assholes like Sam Harris, who (for example) insists on both giving a platform to and refraining from criticizing white supremacist pseudoscientific assholes like Charles Murray. I don’t think it’s because Harris is evil - I suspect his ego is such that he sees criticism from liberals as so terrifying that he rationalizes that any such criticism is illegitimate, and this anyone else criticized similarly must be legitimate and correct. But it doesn’t matter why - functionally, Harris is aiding and abetting white supremacists. At other times he criticizes them… but that’s not nearly enough. And there are many more like Harris, lending legitimacy to other assholes, most commonly the big daddy asshole of the present, Trump. There’s no excuse for this right not, not when the country is in so much peril right now. Some of these supposed moderates have, at least partially, come around. But that’s not enough. It should take years and years of penance to make up for such colossal and dangerous stupidity. And we need to remember this whenever the Republicans wake up, if they do - a single apology isn’t enough. None of the Trump enablers should get so much as a TV talking head paycheck from decent media in the coming years, even if they’re willing to denounce what they’ve done in the past. These aren’t normal times. > [@](#): > > Your last statement of “the wealthy, the powerful, the influential, the bigoted” as being “always the bad guys” is such black and white thinking that really seems like a problematic attitude to have… unless you are fine with basically everyone being the enemy. The poor, immigrants, POC, they all have their fair share of bigots and “traditional” views. You don’t have to agree with someone on everything to be their ally - and I think if more people in society had this viewpoint the world would be a better place. I’m taking about the forces that have shaped society for generations. That’s not the poor, or minorities, or immigrants. That’s the fatcats - billionaires and corporate CEOs. Using bigotry to manipulate and maintain their power and control. I want them to be afraid - so afraid that they embrace progressive policies because they come to believe the alternative is the guillotine. That means decent society needs to see them for what they are - the enemies of decency. At least until our society is significantly remade for the better. --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199)._