# Ideological bias... Again. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 20, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270 "2018-07-20T13:44:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/21 "2018-07-25T05:13:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its like disneyland for liberals. You can’t say “fuck” but otherwise its a fairly hospitable environment. Not if you’re a non-White African or an African American, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/22 "2018-07-25T07:55:48Z")
I don’t agree with pretty much any of the argument the OP is making in that GD thread. But I definitely agree it is a huge, huge stretch to interpret his post as any sort of insult. “Perhaps it [is] racism” clearly refers back to his previous sentence “So you have no idea why you are trying to tear down Asian success and excuse the lack of success in the black community.” He is arguing that performing that action without a valid reason is a form of racism. I also note that Bone, a mod, is among those who has argued that the term “whiteness” is racist. I don’t agree with **Damuri Ajashi** ’s point in the slightest. I think his position in the entire thread is untenable. Reading through the thread to find the point where he was actually Warned, I found myself quite angry at him, even. I find his arguing tactics to be less than helpful, to say the least. But I cannot stand behind the idea that saying that an idea might be due to racism is somehow an attack on the person who expressed that idea. It is unreasonable to interpret his post as calling the poster themselves a racist. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/23 "2018-07-25T07:58:28Z")
I am a liberal, and I want to be able to point out an argument being made may be due to racism. As such, I cannot deny that to the other side–even if they are completely and totally wrong in their assessment. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/24 "2018-07-25T08:46:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t agree with pretty much any of the argument the OP is making in that GD thread. But I definitely agree it is a huge, huge stretch to interpret his post as any sort of insult. “Perhaps it [is] racism” clearly refers back to his previous sentence “So you have no idea why you are trying to tear down Asian success and excuse the lack of success in the black community.” He is arguing that performing that action without a valid reason is a form of racism. […] > > But I cannot stand behind the idea that saying that an idea might be due to racism is somehow an attack on the person who expressed that idea. It is unreasonable to interpret his post as calling the poster themselves a racist. The antecedent for “it” there is the “why you are trying” in the first sentence. So no, it very much _is_ calling me a racist. I’m sorry, but “you are acting from racist motives” is the only literal reading of that second sentence. Not just “You are expressing a racist idea.” He’s not _just_ saying the idea is racist, he’s saying I’m expressing it _because of my racism_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/25 "2018-07-25T08:50:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am a liberal, and I want to be able to point out an argument being made may be due to racism Currently, in GD, you are _not_ allowed to do that, liberal or not. I don’t like it either, but that rule has been applied quite often to liberals, there’s no bias at work there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/26 "2018-07-25T11:33:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did you read the post that triggered the warning? I did, and if I understand the rules correctly (and I disagree with this particular rule), accusations of racism are expressly forbid outside of the Pit. But not accusations of having contempt, or assertions that a post is contemptuous, or assertions of shitting on people. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/27 "2018-07-25T11:55:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The antecedent for “it” there is the “why you are trying” in the first sentence. So no, it very much _is_ calling me a racist. I’m sorry, but “you are acting from racist motives” is the only literal reading of that second sentence. Not just “You are expressing a racist idea.” He’s not _just_ saying the idea is racist, he’s saying I’m expressing it _because of my racism_. This is way hairsplittly, but we are after all on the Dope. There’s a continuum: -That idea is racist. -You profess that idea due to racist motives. -You profess that idea because you’re a racist. Honestly I don’t know where the hair gets split. Ideas aren’t aliens that burst forth from heads fully contained and self-aware. If an idea is racist, that’s shorthand for saying that people who hold that idea are thinking in racist ways. And if you say someone is racist, that’s not saying which team they belong to. It’s saying that they’re thinking in racist ways. In a very real sense, everything on that continuum expresses the same idea. HOWEVER: if you say someone is “a racist,” there’s the implication that they’re racist to the last drop. If you say the idea is racist, you leave open the possibility that other folks hold the idea for racist reasons, but whoever just said it just hasn’t thought it through carefully. Suggesting someone has racist motives is in the middle of the spectrum, implication-wise. But it should still be allowed. All sorts of discussions of a person’s motives are allowed here, even when the motivational speculation is absurd. This is just another way of discussing someone’s motives. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/28 "2018-07-25T12:23:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Suggesting someone has racist motives is in the middle of the spectrum, implication-wise. I disagree. I don’t see any effective difference between “you have racist motives” and “you’re a racist”. There is no hair’s breadth there to split. That’s probably because I also disagree that > [@](#): > > if you say someone is “a racist,” there’s the implication that they’re racist to the last drop. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/29 "2018-07-25T13:01:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > There’s a continuum: > > -That idea is racist. > -You profess that idea due to racist motives. > -You profess that idea because you’re a racist. Definitely. Pointing out that an idea is racist doesn’t equate to calling a person a racist. Institutionalized racism, without careful thought, can affect how we think and what we say. Example: When I was a kid, we used to have dinner together at 6:00 every night, barring special events. Part of it was my parents asking me and my brother how our days went, what we did, etc. One night, I was talking about how someone at school had traded with me, but then reneged on the deal. I said something like, “No, I can’t show it to you because she took it back. She’s an Indian Giver!” My mother was shocked and upset with me. “Indian Giver” is a blatantly racist phrase. It implies that, if you are shady and lack character and renege on an agreement, you’re an “Indian Giver”. She explained all of that to me, and then I understood what I was saying, but I really didn’t before she explained it. I never used that phrase again. In essence, I was a non-racist person who was talking in a racist way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/30 "2018-07-25T14:06:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not if you’re a non-White African or an African American, it’s not. So you think this site is not hospitable to blacks? Perhaps my posts wasn’t clear enough for you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/31 "2018-07-25T14:19:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I am a liberal, and I want to be able to point out an argument being made may be due to racism. As such, I cannot deny that to the other side–even if they are completely and totally wrong in their assessment. Does it bother you that you have to make so many disclaimers about disagreeing with my position before you state your position regarding a questionable warning. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/32 "2018-07-25T14:25:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not if you’re a non-White African or an African American, it’s not. And not if you’re a woman either. Among other categories. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/33 "2018-07-25T14:27:33Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The antecedent for “it” there is the “why you are trying” in the first sentence. So no, it very much _is_ calling me a racist. I’m sorry, but “you are acting from racist motives” is the only literal reading of that second sentence. Not just “You are expressing a racist idea.” He’s not _just_ saying the idea is racist, he’s saying I’m expressing it _because of my racism_. Obvioulsy your way of seeing things are not “the only” possible reading of that second sentence. It requires mind reading on your part (and the moderator’s part) to reach the conclusion you (and the moderator) reached. I would suggest that if I was on the other side of the argument, you (and the moderator) might have seen a little daylight between the statement I made and an calling someone a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/34 "2018-07-25T14:28:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I did, and if I understand the rules correctly (and I disagree with this particular rule), accusations of racism are expressly forbid outside of the Pit. But not accusations of having contempt, or assertions that a post is contemptuous, or assertions of shitting on people. I guess if those things aren’t considered insulting (don’t forget disgust, said that at least once). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/35 "2018-07-25T14:30:07Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > And not if you’re a woman either. Among other categories. How is this site inhospitable to women? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/36 "2018-07-25T14:39:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I guess if those things aren’t considered insulting (don’t forget disgust, said that at least once). Presumably, at some point a mod will weigh in and let us know. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/37 "2018-07-25T15:24:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How is this site inhospitable to women? [Here are](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856307) a [couple of](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=856549) recent threads on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/38 "2018-07-25T16:29:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So you think this site is not hospitable to blacks? Did I say only Blacks? I said African-Americans and _non-White Africans._ Who aren’t all Black. And yes, having people be free to start entire threads on how your entire continent is functionally mentally disabled is kind of my idea of inhospitable. But that refers specifically to GD, not “this site” Maybe _your_ Disneyland experiences are different from what I’ve been told about. My wife doesn’t recall Mickey following her around calling her a congenital imbecile when she was there. > [@](#): > > Perhaps my posts wasn’t clear enough for you. No, I could read all the words just fine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/39 "2018-07-25T16:32:05Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Obvioulsy your way of seeing things are not “the only” possible reading of that second sentence. It requires mind reading on your part (and the moderator’s part) to reach the conclusion you (and the moderator) reached. No, it just requires a straightforward reading of the words you wrote. Or are you offering a different literal meaning for “Why? Perhaps it [sic] racism?” > [@](#): > > I would suggest that if I was on the other side of the argument, you (and the moderator) might have seen a little daylight between the statement I made and an calling someone a racist. No, this has nothing to do with which side you were arguing, and everything to do with your actual phrasing to me. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270/40 "2018-07-25T16:48:25Z")
Mods are human (at least for the time being) and can’t switch off their prejudices/likes/dislikes when they moderate. Having said that, they can allow for those feelings and try to prevent them from influencing their decisions. In the 16 or so years I’ve been here it’s been my experience that most of them do that. Sure, there’s the occasional outlier, but I don’t think this is one of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ideological-bias-again/818270.md?page=3)