# IDF's alleged recording of Islamic Jihad, and questions of journalistic integrity and trust **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** israel-hamas-war\ **Created:** [October 18, 2023, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857 "2023-10-18T17:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/141 "2023-10-21T16:40:30Z")
Were the tweets from the thousands of anonymous people written BEFORE or AFTER the tweet from Alex Thomson? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/142 "2023-10-21T16:44:14Z")
I’m sorry, but I think your idea that the many thousands of people that commented on the video are all bots that someone wrote unique posts for after the Channel 4 reporter tweeted is is a lunatic conspiracy theory, so I’m not going to waste any time on it. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/143 "2023-10-21T16:59:46Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I’m not talking about the tweet from the Channel 4 investigative journalist, I’m talking about the tweet that was released by the state of Israel that included the audio recording. Oh I see l, but still as you say those are just anonymous commentators. There are plenty of Palestinian Arabic speaking commentators out there (20% of the population of Israel are for example). There was so much online commentary going through this evidence with a fine tooth comb, I have real trouble believing none of them brought this up. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/144 "2023-10-21T17:03:23Z")
To sum up: The recording may well be a fake. Your evidence for it is beyond weak. It consists of Trust this single journalist and his anonymous sources Trust a bunch of random twitter users That’s it. That’s all you’ve got. End. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/145 "2023-10-21T17:06:47Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Oh I see l, but still as you say those are just anonymous commentators. There are plenty of Palestinian Arabic speaking commentators out there (20% of the population of Israel are for example). There was so much online commentary going through this evidence with a fine tooth comb, I have real trouble believing none of them brought this up. For example this came up on my news feed as I was typing this. The top story on the BBC news feed right now is by a Palestinian journalist working for the BBC: > Rushdi Abu Alouf: My daughters beg for Gaza City return - but our old lives are over > [Rushdi Abualouf: My daughters beg for Gaza City return - but our old lives are over - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67180401) If this was really such a obvious fake, that was clear to anyone who spoke Palestinian arabic, why didn’t this guy, or one of the loads of other Palestinian commentators on my news feed point that fact out? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/146 "2023-10-21T17:11:33Z")
How many of those comments have blue checks? How many are bots? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/147 "2023-10-21T17:15:20Z")
I feel I’ve established that it was more than just the handful of journalists and people from the Channel 4 News report and the news article that questioned the authenticity of the audio recording. I don’t have time to go through thousands of tweets to try and confirm people’s credentials. I’ve spent many hours over the last couple of days responding to people in this thread, some of whom I do not believe to have been posting in good faith. As I said soon after posting the tweet from the Channel 4 news reporter, I have no firm opinion one way or the other on the authenticity of the audio recording. This has not changed. I feel the discussion in this thread passed the point of being constructive some time ago. I’m out. If the mods wish to close the thread, they are welcome to. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/148 "2023-10-22T00:56:44Z")
From CNN" > Without the ability to access the site and gather evidence from the ground, no conclusion can be definitive. But CNN’s analysis suggests that a rocket launched from within Gaza broke up midair, and that the blast at the hospital was the result of part of the rocket landing at the hospital complex. [https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html) But but but… Last week a _respected_ British TV journalist reported that he talked to a couple of anonymous guys who said that the recording of some guys talking about the rocket failure was … probably fake. And we’ve heard nothing from the respected journalist since. Is CNN “respected”? I guess not. Obviously they are part of the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/149 "2023-10-22T01:03:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > From CNN" > > > Without the ability to access the site and gather evidence from the ground, no conclusion can be definitive. But CNN’s analysis suggests that a rocket launched from within Gaza broke up midair, and that the blast at the hospital was the result of part of the rocket landing at the hospital complex. > > [https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/middleeast/cnn-investigates-forensic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast/index.html) > > But but but… Last week a _respected_ British TV journalist reported that he talked to a couple of anonymous guys who said that the recording of some guys talking about the rocket failure was … probably fake. And we’ve heard nothing from the respected journalist since. > > Is CNN “respected”? I guess not. Obviously they are part of the conspiracy. What the hell are you talking about? You really think that because you haven’t checked his Twitter feed or watched Channel 4 news he’s disappeared or something? Really, almost everything you write is just lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/150 "2023-10-22T01:18:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But but but… Last week a _respected_ British TV journalist reported that he talked to a couple of anonymous guys who said that the recording of some guys talking about the rocket failure was … probably fake. And we’ve heard nothing from the respected journalist since. Even if the rocket originated in Gaza, the recording released by the IDF might be fake. I’m personally assigning about 98% credibility to the “rocket fired within Gaza” theory and about 40% credibility to that recording being real. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2023, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/151 "2023-10-22T03:49:34Z")
After CNN I could go no higher than 90-95%. I think experts would have to see the site in person to go higher. I do not know how likely this is to happen soon. I cannot place much faith in a recording; less so until a detailed inspection happens. There may already be inconsistencies. The Canadian and French governments reached the same conclusion as CNN. They claim to have conducted independent analyses. This does not change much, including my opinion of Israel having the right to defend itself, but an obligation to do so lawfully, including allowing humanitarian provision of food, water and anything needed for medical care. I hope a reasonable long-term solution can be found. ---
**Author:** ![verlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/50afbb/32.png) [@verlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/152 "2023-10-23T04:23:38Z")
Why do you type the name of Hamas in quotation marks, i.e. “Hamas”? Do you question whether there is such an organization? You could say you don’t believe that Hamas caused those deaths if you like, but everyone know that Hamas is an actual organization, known by that name. BTW, Israel and the United States have not attributed that missile to Hamas, anyway, but to another Islamic terrorist organization. I don’t know for sure whose missile it was, but I understand the damage done is not at all consistent with that done by Israeli missiles which are certainly raining down on Gaza and causing death among the population, even if not intended… ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2023, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/153 "2023-10-23T04:34:33Z")
From The New York Times (article summaries): _Five days after Hamas accused Israel of bombing a hospital in Gaza City and killing hundreds of people, the armed Palestinian group has yet to produce or describe any evidence linking Israel to the strike, says it cannot find the munition that hit the site and has declined to provide detail to support its count of the casualties._ _Within an hour of the blast on Tuesday night, the Hamas-run Gazan health ministry accused Israel of attacking the Ahli Arab hospital, a medical center in Gaza City where scores of families had been sheltering. The allegation was soon denied by Israel but quickly accepted and amplified by Arab leaders across the Middle East, setting off unrest throughout the region. The claim was widely cited by international news outlets, [including The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/17/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-explosion-israel.html), before Israel issued its denial._ > **[Israel-Hamas War: Second Aid Convoy Arrives in Gaza Amid Growing Fears of a...](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/10/22/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news)** > > The United Nations said 14 more trucks carried aid into the enclave late Sunday, as the Biden administration urges Israel to delay a ground invasion. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/154 "2023-10-24T13:19:21Z")
Relevant to this thread, I think, though not about the recording: > **[News outlets backtrack on Gaza blast after relying on Hamas as key source](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/24/1208075395/israel-gaza-hospital-strike-media-nyt-apology)** > > The BBC and The New York Times are among the news outlets revisiting their coverage of a deadly blast at a Gaza hospital. They relied on Hamas as an authoritative source of information. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/155 "2023-10-24T17:48:57Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Read the comments on Twitter under the video of the audio recording. Of the 11,585 comments to the video, a significant number are saying it sounds fake. Of course, one doesn’t necessarily know the credentials of the commenters. > > I believe only someone fluent in Palestinian Arabic can offer any serious analysis into the language issues of the recording. Wow, this may be a new record for flailing in defense of a bad argument. I don’t know if I’ve literally ever seen anyone on the Dope attempt to use “the comments on Twitter” as a cite before. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/156 "2023-10-24T17:55:02Z")
It sounds like you’re going for the Euphonious\_Polemic lunatic conspiracy theory - that the thousands of comments saying they thought the recording was fake were all bots that some nefarious actor had written thousands of unique comments for. Or do you have your own lunatic conspiracy theory? I’d love to hear it. Remember, my argument is not that these thousands of people were right in their opinion that it was fake, just that they had an opinion. I’m really looking forward to what you’ve got to say… Go! ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/157 "2023-10-24T18:06:45Z")
I’m not sure why you think the presence of nefarious bots on Twitter is some sort of lunatic conspiracy theory, it’s been well documented to be a thing. But putting that aside, maybe all those tweets were written by real people who were fooled by Hamas propaganda. Your argument, then, is that thousands of people believed Hamas propaganda, and therefore…what, exactly? That proves it wasn’t _obviously_ false? But that same argument could be used to prove that Trump was robbed of the Presidency, that the Moon landing was faked, and that Barack Obama is a Muslim. Citing “the comments on Twitter” as an authority is literally citing “a representative selection of the stupidest, most gullible people on Earth”. Do you now agree that it was always ludicrous to think Hamas’ claims were plausible, and that the world media committed a serious error by bothering to print them at all, let alone with misleading headlines? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/158 "2023-10-24T18:11:16Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > that the thousands of comments saying they thought the recording was fake were all bots that some nefarious actor had written thousands of unique comments for. I thought some huge fraction of all Twitter accounts were bots. I’ve seen people post Twitter comments because they are funny or insightful. But this is the first time I’ve seen anyone claim that a lot of Twitter comments actually meant something. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/159 "2023-10-24T18:15:26Z")
This is really, really exceptionally funny. You’ve come in here with big attitude, big guns and completely failed to grasp what the point in the discussion is about. You’ve shot yourself in the foot so badly you have no legs to stand on. People were questioning why so few people had commented that they thought the audio recording was fake, that it was only the two Arab journalists that the Channel 4 journalist mentioned, and the people quoted in The New Arab article. I then proceeded to show that thousands of other people had commented about it on Twitter. Seriously, you’ve embarrassed yourself really badly. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857/160 "2023-10-24T18:17:21Z")
Also: has there ever been a documented case of Israel bombing a hospital or other civilian facility and then lying about it? Their usual MO is to claim that bad guys were hiding in the school/mosque/whatever. It’s certainly possible that sometimes they lie about THAT, but I’m not aware of any cases where they completely denied responsibility for an attack with civilian casualties and were proven to have lied? And why would they even try to do that, since, despite your frantic attempts to distract everyone into talking about this recording, the presence or absence of a crater would conclusively prove whether an airstrike was responsible or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idfs-alleged-recording-of-islamic-jihad-and-questions-of-journalistic-integrity-and-trust/991857.md?page=9)