# Idi Amin Deathwatch and Condolence Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idi-amin-deathwatch-and-condolence-thread/189916 "2003-07-21T14:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2003, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idi-amin-deathwatch-and-condolence-thread/189916/101 "2003-07-25T10:14:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*Spare me the idiotic natives references. > I quite simply disagree with Amnesty’s characterization, the people involved are more bandits than anything, as well as spill over from Guinea Bissau. \*\* Gladly, if you’ll spare me the parody of a British colonialist. “Not to worry, just a spot of bother up-country, old chap. Shan’t interfere with the polo, I shouldn’t think.” You not only disagree with Amnesty International, you also disagree with the Senagalese government who has held a series of peace talks with the “bandits.” As to how serious the conflict is, well, to the people that live in the region, it’s quite serious. > [@](#): > > \*\*Although it was difficult to determine the extent of their use in the Casamance, RADDHO claimed that up to 80 percent of the arable land in the areas of Ziguinchor, Sedhiou, Oussouy, and Bignona were unusable due to the land mines. RADDHO also estimated that between 1997 and 1998 land mines killed and injured some 500 civilians in the Casamance. \*\* [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/mfdc.htm](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/mfdc.htm) So apart from killing people, the conflict is also screwing up the economy, both agricultural and tourist. But you don’t think it’s a big deal. **Collounsbury** , attitudes like yours are one of Africa’s biggest problems. “You can’t judge Africa like a “normal” place. These things happen. It’s Good Enough For Africa.” This world-weary attitude is prevalent and even, perhaps, understandable. But it’s still the “soft bigotry of low expectations.” > [@](#): > > \*\*Really, okay my dear analyst, show me the motherfucking analyses instead of your stupid fucking posturing. One thing I truly have contempt for is this kind of moronic, fact free posturing. \*\* Very well. Your second cite gives average annual GDP growth for sub saharan Africa (excluding South Africa) as 2.4% for the period between 1965 and 1969, not stellar but respectable. But that number is GDP, **not** GDP per capita. In the same period, sub saharan Africa’s population grew at an average annual rate of 2.5%. [http://www.un.org/ecosocdev/geninfo/afrec/sgreport/repdfs/siagrphs.pdf](http://www.un.org/ecosocdev/geninfo/afrec/sgreport/repdfs/siagrphs.pdf) In other words, in the late 1960’s, during Africa’s supposed boom years when, in your words, it was “well performing for developing nations with solid growth rates,” **per capita GDP actually went down. i.e, Sub Saharan Africans got poorer**. Colour me unimpressed. What was _supposed_ to happen was for birth rates to go down and for growth to remain steady and perhaps even improve as the economy built up infrastructure and capital. In the event, birth rates went up and growth rates stagnated, at best. There’s another factor to consider here. Even though they cause tremendous misery and make improvement impossible, Africa’s civil unrest, wars and even anarchy aren’t adequately reflected in the numbers when you have a really low base. If, hypothetically, your entire country is populated by subsistence farmers who live on a dollar a day, no war is going to do much damage to your GDP numbers. > [@](#): > > \*\*however much it speaks volumes to your level of knowledge, that Africa was in continuous delcine, as an aggregate entity, since the 17th century. \*\* Ahh. Now I see what you were getting so exercised about. A passing reference to the slave trade, my too-literal friend. ## quote: ## I assume by “free Africa” you mean “no longer a colony Africa.” Why wouldn’t that include South Africa? > [@](#): > > \*\*Apartheid. You may recall a small to do regarding that institution. \*\* And? What’s apartheid got to do with the price of Cocoa in Mali? South Africa became independent before WWI. It is economically interesting to treat colonies differently from independent countries. It makes sense to treat SA separately because it had such a high base that it skewed all the data. Unless you’re trying to make some political point, however, it doesn’t make sense to treat SA separately because you don’t like its political system. If that were the criteria, there’d be lots of countries we could ignore and the numbers would look lots better. > [@](#): > > \*\*In the end it is not simply a quibble in regards to when the decline began, rather your ignorant posturing is emblamatic of the systematic ignorance in re the continent. \*\* Your posturing is emblematic of something else. Because of donor fatigue and, I suspect, to save their own sanity, a lot of NGOs and other interested parties have a tendency to focus on the pine needles at the expense of the forest. If you want donors to put their money on the table, you have to convince them that _this_ country and _this_ project are different. Yes, indeed, each county in Africa is screwed up in its own unique way. And yet, somehow, patterns emerge. African development policies have been an almost unmitigated disaster. It’s not just a matter of tweaking bits of African economies until the conditions for growth are just right. The 87th IMF plan for Kenya isn’t going to be any more effective than the first 86 were, especially since it, too, will likely be ignored. Donors and NGOs need to step back and take a long look at the forest and rethink the entire thing from first principles. Sure there are differences, but there are similarities too and it’s the similarities we ought to be looking at. Africa isn’t in its current state because of 40 incredibly unlucky coincidences. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idi-amin-deathwatch-and-condolence-thread/189916/102 "2003-08-17T07:51:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Testy \* > Idi and his family had the whole top floor. I always had visions of Idi calling room service and telling them “No No, I don’t need a menu. Just make sure the waiter is plump.” He was always in there. AFAIK, he never came outside. I don’t know if that was due to fear or what. > > As far as remorse for being glad he’s dead, **fuck that**. That evil cocksucker killed humans by the thousands and tens of thousands, not even considering the ones he allowed to die from starvation. My only regret is that the survivors of some of those people he tortured and killed didn’t get him first. Dying of old age is way too good for him. > > Regards > > Testy Sniff! Stop, stop, you’re ripping my heart out! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2003, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idi-amin-deathwatch-and-condolence-thread/189916/103 "2003-08-17T09:56:49Z")
Well, he’s now officially dead. According to Radio 4 this morning, he continued to have delusions of widespread popularity up to the end of his life, believing that he could return to Uganda and be warmly greeted by the teeming throngs. At one point he also wrote to QE2 offering to provide helpful advice on resolving the difficulties the Royal family were undergoing (at the time when everyone was getting divorced), and was rather hurt that she never replied. If nothing else, this man needed a severe flogging with the Reality Stick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idi-amin-deathwatch-and-condolence-thread/189916.md?page=5)