# Idioms like "Your dog needs trained". Who, what, where, etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170 "2009-10-17T22:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/1 "2009-10-17T22:37:13Z")
Saw a small roadside sign today with that message “Your dog needs trained”, then “Honest Bob’s Obedience School” and a phone number. So far, so ordinary, but it got me to thinking. I’ve heard other people and seen other writings using that same idiomatic form; namely leaving the normal “to be” out of the sentence. Does anyone know what this idiom style is called? Or where it’s common in the US? Or anything else at all about it? I wondered whether it was just a transliteration from another language where it would be correct mainstream grammar, but that doesn’t seem to fit what I think I know about the history & geography of this style. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/2 "2009-10-17T22:48:51Z")
There was a thread on this very recently, I think someone said it was common in Pittsburgh. It’s used all the time in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/3 "2009-10-17T22:54:13Z")
Yeah, I think it was Pennsylvania where people say it like that. I don’t like it much; my car doesn’t “needs” washed; it needs TO BE washed. And it doesn’t need to be “warshed” either. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/4 "2009-10-17T22:56:24Z")
I also understand it to be Pittsburgh dialect: “The room needs red up”; “The car needs washed”; etc. I believe it originates from the Pennsylvania Dutch (which actually means Deutsch/German). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/5 "2009-10-17T23:03:48Z")
> [@](#): > > I also understand it to be Pittsburgh dialect: “The room needs red up”; Actually, that’s “redd up”. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/6 "2009-10-17T23:12:35Z")
Southeastern Ohio as well. Maybe other regions of Ohio also, but southeastern Ohio is what I’m familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/7 "2009-10-17T23:15:45Z")
I’m from rural Ohio and that sentence sounds perfectly fine to me, so I suppose it’s common there too. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/8 "2009-10-17T23:18:00Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Southeastern Ohio as well. Maybe other regions of Ohio also, but southeastern Ohio is what I’m familiar with. Yep. It’s normal usage here. ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/9 "2009-10-17T23:18:14Z")
Northern West Virginia (where I’m originally from) does it too. Then again, that’s an area heavily influenced by the local Pittsburgh dialect. I never noticed anything odd about that sentence construction until I moved away and had it pointed out. But that began a discussion in which coworker from Indiana said you hear it in parts of that state occasionally, too. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/10 "2009-10-18T00:13:06Z")
In Southeast Michigan here, and have never heard anyone speak that way. I’ve read other threads about it here, and I think I like it. Maybe I’ll take it up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/11 "2009-10-18T00:49:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I also understand it to be Pittsburgh dialect: “The room needs red up”; > > Actually, that’s “redd up”. I still don’t know what that means. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/12 "2009-10-18T00:52:41Z")
Means to straighten up the room, neaten it, tidy it, prepare it for dinner, or for guests, or something. I have always assumed it was short for “readied up”. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Shake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@Master\_Shake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Shake)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/13 "2009-10-18T00:56:53Z")
My professor recently wrote an article on this particular construction. She is a speaker of the dialect where this is acceptable (U.S. midland region - Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, etc.). The article can be found [here](http://eng.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/1/28), but you’d have to pay for it. The abstract might give you a reasonable amount of info though, depending on how interested you really are. ---
**Author:** ![Xylo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@Xylo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xylo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/14 "2009-10-18T02:59:50Z")
The previous thread suggested it originated as a Scots/Irish thing, which rings true for me. My Scottish girlfriend does it all the time, as did an Irish former colleague. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/15 "2009-10-18T03:52:24Z")
The dishes need put away. The car needs washed. My room needs cleaned. All common in my Hoosier household. Sometimes “to be” would be put in, but it just makes it sound more formal, like saying “do not” instead of “don’t.” My mom is from PA, dad is local. Curiously, my dad says warshed but not my mom. He’s third generation German. ---
**Author:** ![Uncertain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Uncertain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncertain)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/16 "2009-10-18T17:36:06Z")
> [@Master\_Shake](#): > > My professor recently wrote an article on this particular construction. She is a speaker of the dialect where this is acceptable (U.S. midland region - Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, etc.). > > The article can be found [here](http://eng.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/1/28), but you’d have to pay for it. The abstract might give you a reasonable amount of info though, depending on how interested you really are. That seems to be about something different. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/17 "2009-10-18T17:41:59Z")
It seems to be a PA area thing. I hear it here in the Philadelphia area, but when I lived in the middle of PA I heard it from everyone. Floor needs swept. Car needs washed. This tv needs fixed. Etc ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/18 "2009-10-18T18:07:27Z")
I accept that this is a dialect, but it just sounds bone ignorant to me. I’d recommend speakers from the area to be careful using it outside of the home/immediate vicinity. The ears of the educated can only take so much. ---
**Author:** ![flano1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f14d63/32.png) [@flano1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flano1)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/19 "2009-10-18T18:15:21Z")
ah come on, mag! perhaps " quaint " instead of " bone ignorant ". Hearing it said is far different from reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170/20 "2009-10-18T18:20:52Z")
I question the Pennsylvania Deutsch origins of it - I grew up in a Mennonite town in Saskatchewan, and no one said anything like this. They’d say, “Throw the cow over the fence some hay,” but not, “The cow needs milked.” These were people who spoke more Low German than they spoke English. I realize Pennsylvania Amish are different from Saskatchewan Mennonites, but they are both German-speaking groups from the same area (as far as I know). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idioms-like-your-dog-needs-trained-who-what-where-etc/514170.md?page=2)