# Idiot friend of the family, who has sex with underage girls **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965 "2009-11-09T23:52:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/61 "2009-11-15T05:21:09Z")
> [@anya\_marie](#): > > Cesario , you aren’t doing yourself any favors here. > > Just because children married in the past is no reason to continue the practice given that these girls are at a disadvantage, and THEY DIE in childbirth. There is no reason for any child anywhere of any religion to get married so young. What are you talking about? I’ve never used “they did it in the past” as an argument for anything. Except possibly “civilization won’t fall as a result of doing this, as it’s not as though this is unprecidented historically”. I hardly need to rely on such flimsy arguments, after all, when there are plenty of far better ones at my disposal. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/62 "2009-11-15T05:31:36Z")
The only part of that directed at you was “You’re not doing yourself any favors.” I’m not interested in your thoughts, feelings, opinions or your dog. I have no questions for you and your lifestyle, and your arguments are full of hair-splitting solipsism. Is that clear enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/63 "2009-11-15T07:24:28Z")
> [@anya\_marie](#): > > The only part of that directed at you was “You’re not doing yourself any favors.” > > I’m not interested in your thoughts, feelings, opinions or your dog. I have no questions for you and your lifestyle, and your arguments are full of hair-splitting solipsism. Is that clear enough for you? Well then, his next question to you will probably be “how old are you?” ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/64 "2009-11-15T07:28:18Z")
Aren’t 30 year olds out of his preferred age group anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/65 "2009-11-15T07:43:41Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > What are you talking about? I’ve never used “they did it in the past” as an argument for anything. Except possibly “civilization won’t fall as a result of doing this, as it’s not as though this is unprecidented historically”. > > I hardly need to rely on such flimsy arguments, after all, when there are plenty of far better ones at my disposal. Civilization may not fall, as it has been happening, but it’s still very hurtful to young girls. If Indian society still continues more or less okay but those girls like the ones quoted in the article are as unhappy and disturbed as they say they are, is the status quo worth upholding? ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/66 "2009-11-15T08:06:59Z")
> [@anya\_marie](#): > > The only part of that directed at you was “You’re not doing yourself any favors.” Oh, so you weren’t even attempting to make an argument, just take a pot shot. My mistake. > [@anya\_marie](#): > > I’m not interested in your thoughts, feelings, opinions or your dog. Interested enough to call me out by name, apparently. :rolleyes: > [@anya\_marie](#): > > I have no questions for you and your lifestyle, Why would you assume I thought you had questions? > [@anya\_marie](#): > > and your arguments are full of hair-splitting solipsism. Is that clear enough for you? Quite clear. You have no response to any of my arguments, so you just declare victory by dismissing my arguments without dealing with them. It’s not like you’re the first person to take that approach. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Civilization may not fall, as it has been happening, but it’s still very hurtful to young girls. If Indian society still continues more or less okay but those girls like the ones quoted in the article are as unhappy and disturbed as they say they are, is the status quo worth upholding? I read the article. The problems described have nothing to do with marriage or sex in and of themselves. The problems described stem from real problems like mysoginistic laws allowing spousal rape, and a society that, for utterly inexplicable reasons, grants married women less freedom and educational oportunities than it grants to single women (or even single children). There is nothing inherently connecting the concepts of sex or marriage to the real problems these girls are facing. These problems only seem to be stemming from marriage because that culture has arbitrarily attached the problems to marriage. This is the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union all over again, crying for a raised age of consent instead of just MAKING RAPE ILLEGAL. This isn’t that hard a concept. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/67 "2009-11-15T08:58:19Z")
You know, you’d be a lot easier to tolerate if you weren’t so fucking one-dimensional. Do you have any other hobbies or interests? You wouldn’t know it going by your history here. So instead you’re transforming another thread into _The Cesario Show_. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/68 "2009-11-15T09:34:11Z")
I missed the part where i declared victory, but i remember the part where i said that i don’t GIVE A FUCK about your opinion. It’s a little late here for the happy dance. I don’t know or care what you want to accomplish here or in real life, although it seems that nobody else likes you, and that making yourself the center of drama seems important to you. I don’t think for a second that your arguments have any value to anyone except yourself. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/69 "2009-11-16T02:37:34Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > I read the article. The problems described have nothing to do with marriage or sex in and of themselves. The problems described stem from real problems like mysoginistic laws allowing spousal rape, and a society that, for utterly inexplicable reasons, grants married women less freedom and educational oportunities than it grants to single women (or even single children). What proof do you have of that? Or from what empiricism do you derive your logic? > [@Cesario](#): > > There is nothing inherently connecting the concepts of sex or marriage to the real problems these girls are facing. These problems only seem to be stemming from marriage because that culture has arbitrarily attached the problems to marriage. I cannot disagree with you in principle but it seems that society, with all of its arbitrary might, has seen fit to declare permanent the concepts of marriage and sex. Fighting it won’t make it go away, neither will an admission of its facetious origins help to eliminate the real life problems these girls face. Like it or not, the two are linked, and will continue to be so in the near future. Do you doubt that? Because if not, I fail to see what good you’re going to do for your point of view > [@Cesario](#): > > This is the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union all over again, crying for a raised age of consent instead of just MAKING RAPE ILLEGAL. This isn’t that hard a concept. The problem is that society has seen fit to classify these types of sex as rape. Rape is illegal, and this type of sex is rape. What are you arguing for? That age of consent violations be not seen as rape? Should we even have age of consent laws? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/70 "2009-11-16T18:18:47Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > I don’t doubt the ages. I just doubt that it was “widely” accepted by normal folks for 30 year old men marrying 14 y/o women, and doubt it was ever accepted the reverse way (by normal folk I mean not aristocracy, which also practised inbreeding, something most people probably found icky too). > > Many of those 15 year olds getting married were marrying other 15 year olds (or, more generally, probably 13-18 years old). It’s very common (as in the typical, not the exception) in Roma marriages for the groom to be five or more years younger than the bride. And the groom is ususally a teenager. Fourteen to fifteen is common especially in areas where fourteen year olds can legally marry and there are legal and financial reasons that it might be desirable to do so. Also, if you will look through history, ten year age differences (in which the man was older) were normal. It’s only very recently that some communities in the West have considered 14 year olds (the age girls were permitted to start having “gentlemen callers”) not perfectly old enough to be responsible for their sex lives. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/71 "2009-11-16T21:56:42Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > The age of consent exists in order to provide a means for fathers to punish individuals who devalued the bride-prices of their daughters. Nah. It exists because the vast majority of people think having sex with children is among the worst acts a homo sapiens can commit. If you have some real research that backs up your claims, please cite it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/72 "2009-11-16T22:12:59Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > I read the article. The problems described have nothing to do with marriage or sex in and of themselves. The problems described stem from real problems like mysoginistic laws allowing spousal rape, and a society that, for utterly inexplicable reasons, grants married women less freedom and educational oportunities than it grants to single women (or even single children). There is nothing inherently connecting the concepts of sex or marriage to the real problems these girls are facing. These problems only seem to be stemming from marriage because that culture has arbitrarily attached the problems to marriage. > > This is the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union all over again, crying for a raised age of consent instead of just MAKING RAPE ILLEGAL. This isn’t that hard a concept. These girls aren’t able to say no to their husbands who want to have sex with them. Their society hasn’t classified that sex as rape, but a lot of women and girls wish that it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/73 "2009-11-17T03:18:27Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > You know, you’d be a lot easier to tolerate if you weren’t so fucking one-dimensional. > > Do you have any other hobbies or interests? You wouldn’t know it going by your history here. > > So instead you’re transforming another thread into _The Cesario Show_. Would you like to head over to the Cafe Society and discuss the relative merrits of the various Elder Scrolls games? I could use the oportunity to plug my award winning Morrowind mod (Great House Dagoth). I considered venting my agrivation about Stargate Universe, but I’ve made peace with the fact that they aren’t going to kill off Cloe, the only thing that might make the show remotely watchable, so now I basically don’t bother turning on the TV until Sanctuary, which is at least fun. I generally have my discussions about the World of Darkness role playing games on White Wolf’s forums, but if you’re interested in discussing my plot lines and house rules, we can talk about that. But I generally come here to fight ignorance, and this is one subject where I have a lot of information and I tend to face a lot of ignorance. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > What proof do you have of that? Or from what empiricism do you derive your logic? Are you aware you agreed with the conclusion in this very post? > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I cannot disagree with you in principle but it seems that society, with all of its arbitrary might, has seen fit to declare permanent the concepts of marriage and sex. Fighting it won’t make it go away, neither will an admission of its facetious origins help to eliminate the real life problems these girls face. Like it or not, the two are linked, and will continue to be so in the near future. Do you doubt that? Because if not, I fail to see what good you’re going to do for your point of view Not admitting the nature of the problem essentially guarnetees that you won’t actually be taking any steps to correct the problem. Spousal rape is a problem. People being allowed to marry is only a problem relating to spousal rape in so far as the laws don’t bother to criminalize spousal rape. All you do about spousal rape by changing the marriage age is you shift the demographics of the rape victims around a bit. You utterly ignore the underlying problem. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > The problem is that society has seen fit to classify these types of sex as rape. Rape is illegal, and this type of sex is rape. Actually, the problem here (on the child bride issue) is that spousal rape isn’t legally classified as rape when it should be, just as the problem with the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union was that forcing yourself on a struggling woman who gave up struggling at some point in the rape wasn’t classified as rape in the US at the time. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > What are you arguing for? That age of consent violations be not seen as rape? Should we even have age of consent laws? Have you seen my RMSC proposal? > [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > Nah. It exists because the vast majority of people think having sex with children is among the worst acts a homo sapiens can commit. > > If you have some real research that backs up your claims, please cite it. May I see your research so as to clarify what standard of evidence you want to see me bring to the table on this? > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > These girls aren’t able to say no to their husbands who want to have sex with them. Their society hasn’t classified that sex as rape, but a lot of women and girls wish that it would be. Indeed, and the fact that it isn’t classified as rape is a major problem that won’t be solved by shifting around the age lines. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/74 "2009-11-17T14:30:21Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > Would you like to head over to the Cafe Society and discuss the relative merrits of the various Elder Scrolls games? I could use the oportunity to plug my award winning Morrowind mod (Great House Dagoth). That would actually be The Game Room. > [@Cesario](#): > > But I generally come here to fight ignorance, and this is one subject where I have a lot of information and I tend to face a lot of ignorance. No you don’t. You are like the 9/11 conspiracists, the Tax Evaders, the Moon Landing Hoax nutcases, _et al_. You’ve a skewed view that you have convinced yourself is real, and no one is going to tell you otherwise. I just wish the Teeming Millions would recognize nutjobs like you and stop engaging, rather than fostering a forum for twisted worldviews. ---
**Author:** ![fuzzypickles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9d8465/32.png) [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/75 "2009-11-20T18:31:00Z")
> [@Cesario](#): > > But I generally come here to fight ignorance, and this is one subject where I have a lot of information and I tend to face a lot of ignorance. **Cesario** , if you want to see the true face of ignorance, look in the mirror. (By the way, how come there’s no children in Morrowind? Or any other modern RPG, for that matter? Probably because of people like you…) ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/76 "2009-11-20T19:36:04Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > **Cesario** , if you want to see the true face of ignorance, look in the mirror. > > (By the way, how come there’s no children in Morrowind? Or any other modern RPG, for that matter? Probably because of people like you…) Marketing. If a game where a player can “kill” (or otherwise comit acts of violence upon) a child character, it might get slapped with a higher (more restrictive) ESRB rating. Some vendors, like Walmart, won’t sell “M” rated games, for example. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/77 "2009-11-20T20:01:30Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > No you don’t. You are like the 9/11 conspiracists, the Tax Evaders, the Moon Landing Hoax nutcases, _et al_. You’ve a skewed view that you have convinced yourself is real, and no one is going to tell you otherwise. I just wish the Teeming Millions would recognize nutjobs like you and stop engaging, rather than fostering a forum for twisted worldviews. And you just engaged him. Then again, so did I. Damn me. Damn me all to Hell. ---
**Author:** ![Cesario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Cesario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cesario)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/78 "2009-11-21T08:42:15Z")
> [@fuzzypickles](#): > > (By the way, how come there’s no children in Morrowind? Or any other modern RPG, for that matter? Probably because of people like you…) Actually, I use Emma’s “Children of Morrowind” mod in my game, so for some of us, there are children there. As for the reasons they aren’t present in the release version, half the reason is the concern about what rating it would get if you let people kill them, but the other (far more important) half is the artwork required to properly model them. Children, physiologically, aren’t miniature adults, and as a result, you can’t just scale down adult 3D models and get a child model. As to your belief that I’m the reason they aren’t present, what is it that you think I’d be doing with them were they present? Emma’s mod provides ambiance and a sense of completeness that the game world lacked without kids around. My principle use for the child companions some of the plugins for her main mod provided was as apprentices and spear carriers (depending on the relative degree to which I was playing fighting versus magic using characters). I’ve found they’re particularly useful when equiped with scrolls and cast-when-used items, though equiping them with decent archery gear also works out. If you want the lore reason for Morrowind in particular, Dark Elves (and the elven races in general) have a rediculusly low birth rate combined with an equally rediculus life expectancy. Since they only become fertile when the population density drops, one can expect a major baby boom in the time after the Nerevarine’s war against Dagoth Ur, but until all those deaths, the elves there simply weren’t fertile. I think, considering the prevalence of children in Baldur’s Gate, Daggerfall, and numerous others, the most likely cause for the lack of children in more recent games is the graphical improvements people have come to expect, meaning more expensive 3D modeling, meaning developers being less willing to invest in a whole slew of child models when they aren’t expecting children to be playing a major role in terms of interacting with the player. (After all, how much interaction do you have with children on a day-to-day basis?) So they felt like it was something safe to cut. I hope this clears things up. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/79 "2009-11-21T10:37:51Z")
What disturbs me is that Cesario is coming off as the most rational poster in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965/80 "2009-11-21T12:34:44Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > What disturbs me is that Cesario is coming off as the most rational poster in this thread. That’s exactly what I was thinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-friend-of-the-family-who-has-sex-with-underage-girls/516965.md?page=5)