# Idiot fuckin' cops **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702 "2005-06-10T05:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/41 "2005-06-10T19:43:06Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > One - It’s not a false dichotomy. Many serious criminals are caught _because_ they chose to flee, when the law did not otherwise know they were in the area. Their flight alerted the police to their presence. This sounds a lot like dumb luck to me. > [@](#): > > • Often were chasing for relatively minor infractions. Almost three out of four chases were prompted by a traffic violation – mostly speeding, expired plates or erratic driving – or a “suspicious” vehicle or occupant. In the first three months of this year, IPD reported 66 chases. Eight out of 10 stemmed from traffic violations. From [here](http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SPECIAL01/505220468) According to the article, four out of five (I like to reduce fractions when possible) car chases do not need to happen. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/42 "2005-06-10T19:44:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > thinks he can outdrive a radio. Wait a sec. Why the high speed chase if he can be caught with a radio call? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/43 "2005-06-10T19:47:33Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > This sounds a lot like dumb luck to me. You might be surprised how often dumb luck plays a role in law enforcement. In many cases, these kinds of people self-select for capture by the very act of doing something dumb, like running when they don’t need to. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/44 "2005-06-10T19:48:39Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s appalling about it? That technique has been around for a long time and is sometimes the only way to stop someone who refuses to pull over and who is placing innocent lives at risk every minute that he’s rolling down the road with his head up his ass. What’s appalling? The likelihood causing major injury. Even if the only likely injuries are to the perpetrator - a proposition that’s far from what often happens. I see no difference between this and the cops beating the shit out of a guy in the interrogation room. It is use of an unjustifiable level of force. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/45 "2005-06-10T19:51:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they didn’t. How many of those thugs were killed by police fire? **Both**. How many police were killed or seriously injured?\* None.\* Did we read the same article? Ten police officers and six bystanders were injured. Some of the police officers were seriously injured (unless getting shot in the back doesn’t count, somehow?) I’m not a handgun expert, but don’t you have to be fairly close to pull off a headshot successfully? Unless you’re Jack Bauer, that’s kind of hard to do when the other guys are spraying armor piercing bullets from automatic weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/46 "2005-06-10T19:52:46Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > [If only life would immitate art.](http://www.rotaryaction.com/images/yoltdrops.jpg) [Sean Connery]It’s just a drop in the ocean…[/SC] ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/47 "2005-06-10T19:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > In many cases, these kinds of people self-select for capture by the very act of doing something dumb, like running when they don’t need to. Then we can certainly rely on them to do something else dumb in a relatively short period of time, no? So if the pursuee isn’t known to be violent, then there’s no reason to dramatically increase the chances of injuring anyone (the perp, the cop, or the bystander) in order to apprehend him. There’s also no reason to increase the chances of destroying valuable public property (such as a police crusier) - property that may be more valuable than the price that can be put on the perp’s crime(s). ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/48 "2005-06-10T20:13:08Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > No, but how do they tell the joint smokers from the axe killers? Easy. You ask people. This is something West Coast cops never chose to do. In the sixties they just looked at the whole situation as “we vs. them,” and bought a lot of equipment. Not all police forces go “paramilitary.” Some police forces have cops who actually live where they work, or at least who have some kind of connection to the place where they work. They accomplish much more by talking to people than carrying heavy weapons. Of course, it’s very dangerous work, and I don’t blame 'em for wanting to have that back up, but in California, it seems they’ve forgotton how to just talk to the community, rely sole on force. In the case of the 120 rounds shot at the unarmed man (it was the Sherifs, as it happened in Compton, not the police), they thought he was a suspect of reported gunfiring. The guy was acutally just some joker that everyone in the neighborhood knew, who was high on crank, and driving around playing his car stereo real loud. (They’d put up stop sticks, but for some reason as yet unknown, they tried to stop him otherwise before he got to them.) The thing is, before they fired upon him, everyone standing around watching said, “Don’t shoot him! Don’t shoot him!” So what did they do? They shot at him. 120 times. If the guy had really been that dangerous, he probably wouldn’t have had that much public support. They just ignored the public they claim to be serving. It’s a known phenomenon (I can’t remember the term, but I think it’s in the LA Times article about Baca) when there are a lot of cops surrounding a single suspect, they are much more likely to overuse their weapons. It happened to that guy in New York who was just taking out his wallet. It happened to that 13-year-old boy who had joy-ridden and his car backed into an empty patrol car (come on, you’re supposed to fire to protect people, not cars). That bank robbery where the guys had so much fire power (it was in North Hollywood, not West Hollywood) was an anomaly. If I were a cop, it sure would have me upset. But that doesn’t mean they can’t communicate more with the public. There’s one cop in central L.A. who does that, and he has complete public support. He was running for City Council, and I don’t know if he won. He probably did. I guess they should call for back up when they don’t know what the situation is, but it seems they hang around long after unnecessarily. I came home once to find four patrol cars in front of my house. I asked a neighbor what was going on, and she said it was a drunk driver. The guy was already in the back seat of a patrol car, and yet all these cops were just standing around talking to each other. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/49 "2005-06-10T20:20:46Z")
**Uncle Beer** Regarding your posting #14. _ **I stand corrected** _. Also your correcting my error was done very courteously. Sometimes, SDMB discussions (in any category and not just the Pit) can get heated and someone will say things such as “you Dubya bashers look for any excuse to bash him, and maybe you dumbass liberals should check your facts first, etc.” Rather ironic that Pit behavior on many occassions can be more polite than other SDMB categories. Okay. That’s all. Carry on. Everything’s fine. Nothing to see here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/50 "2005-06-10T20:39:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, they didn’t. How many of those thugs were killed by police fire? **Both**. How many police were killed or seriously injured?\* None.\* > > The problem wasn’t that the police were outgunned- it was the bad firearms training that LAPD gives it’s officers- which is to fire off all your rounds very rapidly at the center of body mass. This is fine for 90% of police shotting incidents, sure, but in this case if one officer had actually carefully aimed and shot the perps in the face, the battle would have been over very quickly. Yes, I know- when you are being shot AT, it’s very hard to “aim carefully”- but there were SO many police officers there that the thugs couldn’t keep them all under fire. Oh, man…read my [link](http://www.freqofnature.com/archives/2002_02_24_newsarchives.html) again…the police were up against: > [@](#): > > The robbers sprayed thousands of bullets at officers, bystanders and the surrounding neighborhood for **45 minutes** before they were killed. Ten police officers and six bystanders were wounded. That’s THOUSANDS of rounds fired from automatic weapons and they were wearing body armor. For all intents and purposes, that was an “Army of Two”. > [@](#): > > Since the shootout, three of the officers involved have committed suicide, and many have sought help for depression and substance abuse problems, said Sgt. Keith Moreland, supervisor of the LAPD employee assistance unit. > > While Moreland said he does not believe the officers’ suicides were the direct result of the shootout, he said it is common for officers involved in life-and-death situations to experience despair and anxiety that can worsen if left untreated. > > In all, 21 LAPD officers have killed themselves in the past decade, compared to 14 deaths in the line of duty during the same period, he said. Nationally, the suicide rate of police officers is double that of the general population. As for aiming at the perp’s face…seriously, you think that a cop is gonna get a close enough shot with a handgun or shotgun with that much firepower going against him and calmly place one between the eyes? One officer did get lucky… > [@](#): > > Caprarelli said he still relives moments of the shootout, like running for his life in a hail of bullets, hearing his wounded comrades screaming for help over the radio, and staring into the eyes of Larry Phillips before the 26-year-old robber was shot and killed by police. > > The other robber, Emil Matasareanu, 30, was killed by members of the **LAPD Special Weapons and Tactics team** after he commandeered a pickup from a man who ran for his life after being injured by flying shrapnel. Another [link.](http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/) There are specifics about how outgunned they were and you can also watch the quicktime movie and hear the auto-fire…sounds similar to some other place in the Middle East. If it happened before, I can see why a cop would be on edge when he’s chasing someone, not knowing what was in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/51 "2005-06-10T20:42:06Z")
> [@etmiller](#): > > Easy. You ask people. This is something West Coast cops never chose to do. I see… Just stick their head in the window of the fleeing vehicle and inquire. How do you propose they do that? Seems to me that it would require magic. I don’t believe in magic. I don’t believe you’ve thought that reply through, either. As for the rest of your post… I could deconstruct it, but frankly, I won’t bother - You seem to be replying mostly to others anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/52 "2005-06-10T21:47:07Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Did we read the same article? Ten police officers and six bystanders were injured. Some of the police officers were seriously injured (unless getting shot in the back doesn’t count, somehow?) > > I’m not a handgun expert, but don’t you have to be fairly close to pull off a headshot successfully? Unless you’re Jack Bauer, that’s kind of hard to do when the other guys are spraying armor piercing bullets from automatic weapons. OK, I am partly wrong. :smack: “One of the wounded officers was in serious condition, Williams said”. The rest of those injured were not “serious” and AFAIK, most were hurt by broken glass, not bullets. Still, both perps were killed, and no one else was. Sure- "thousands of rounds were fired’- but they didn’t do much besides scare dudes. Indeed, as I said- if YOU are being shot at (which I have been) it IS very difficult to “be cool” and aim carefully. But even though they had automatic weapons, those perps were covered on 4 sides by dozens of cops, some of which must have had a clear minute or two. I can- with a .45 or a .357 - hit a face sized target at 50’ 5 times out of six. Admitedly, not while being shot at. Besides, body armour doesn’t protect the legs, thighs, arms, etc. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/53 "2005-06-10T22:03:55Z")
Can’t link it, but the Chris Rock show did a wonderful bit on “How To Not Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police”. Although it was quite humorous, it spoke many truths. obey the law use common sense stop immediately turn that shit off be polite shut the fuck up and others. When folk do that-bingo. No more chases. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/54 "2005-06-10T22:13:11Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > be polite > shut the fuck up > When folk do that-bingo. No more chases. However- this _is_ the USA. We don’t _have_ to shut up. It’s in the Bill of Rights. And, we shouldn’t have to be so afraid of our own police that we do shut up. It’s nice to be polite. But we shouldn’t have to be afraid of a beating or a bogus arrest just for being rude. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/55 "2005-06-10T22:20:16Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > When folk do that-bingo. No more chases. I’d prefer _not_ to have to wait for people to obey those rules before police stop killing innocent people with reckless high-speed persuits. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/56 "2005-06-10T22:27:25Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > I see… Just stick their head in the window of the fleeing vehicle and inquire. Of course, not. I was speaking in general. With a fleeing vehicle, you’re right, they have no choice. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/57 "2005-06-11T00:05:41Z")
> [@etmiller](#): > > Of course, not. I was speaking in general. With a fleeing vehicle, you’re right, they have no choice. In that case, we’re in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/58 "2005-06-11T00:22:33Z")
> [@etmiller](#): > > Of course, not. I was speaking in general. With a fleeing vehicle, you’re right, they have no choice. Yes, they do have a choice. The police shoudl embark on a high speed chase only in th esame types of circumstances where they’d pull out their guns and start shooting. In other words- fleeing felons and such. Not traffic violations. High Speed chases are far too dangerous for _everyone-_ including the public not being chased- to allow police to engage in without a 'clear and present danger". ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/59 "2005-06-11T02:00:03Z")
Unfortunately, when the criminal element becomes aware of the standard that they will not be pursued, and they will not have their ass kicked, then what is their incentive to obey a law enforcement officer? Simon Says? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702/60 "2005-06-11T02:50:24Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > As for the rest of your post… I could deconstruct it, but frankly, I won’t bother - You seem to be replying mostly to others anyway. You could always reply to my post. You know the one. You quoted part of it in your reply to it. Most of these chases are for _traffic violations_. I would really like to know how a busted taillight or out of date plate justifies a potentially fatal car chase. FYI, possible getting lucky and crashing into a hard core felon is not adequate justification for the potential lives lost, property damage, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-fuckin-cops/307702.md?page=4)