# Idiot sues Apple over "defective" iPods
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 2, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696 "2006-02-02T18:19:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/1 "2006-02-02T18:19:27Z")
A man in Louisiana is [bringing a lawsuit against Apple](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/01/ipod.suit.ap/index.html) because
> [@](#):
>
> The iPod players are “inherently defective in design and are not sufficiently adorned with adequate warnings regarding the likelihood of hearing loss,” according to the complaint, filed Tuesday in U.S. District Court in San Jose, California, on behalf of John Kiel Patterson, of Louisiana.
It seems that if you blast an iPod into your ears at full volume it may damage your hearing. :rolleyes:
And they didn’t put a sticker on it to warn him. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, he will probably win, and we will all wind up paying more for iPods and anything else with headphones or speakers attached.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/2 "2006-02-02T18:22:25Z")
Well, it does look like he’s got a case… from the linked article:
> [@](#):
>
> Apple was forced to pull the iPod from store shelves in France and upgrade software on the device to limit sound to 100 decibels, but has not followed suit in the United States, according to the complaint.
Bear in mind that he’s not suing them because he’s lost his hearing. He’s suing them because the things are dangerous. Damn kids and their rock and roll…
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/3 "2006-02-02T18:31:05Z")
> [@CNN](#):
>
> The Cupertino, California-based company ships a warning with each iPod that cautions “permanent hearing loss may occur if earphones or headphones are used at high volume.”
So he’s not just deaf, he’s also blind?
Except he’s _not_ deaf, because he states right in his complaint that he doesn’t know if using his iPod caused him any hearing loss at all.
Chuck the jackass out of court along with an order to pay court costs and anything else the court can stick him with for filing such a clearly frivolous suit.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/4 "2006-02-02T18:32:15Z")
Hmm.
I bought my first mp3 player (not an iPod) a couple of months ago, and it had that warning. Not that the highest volume is all that loud, even if you use earphones that don’t suck ass, like the ones that came with it.
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/5 "2006-02-02T18:37:16Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> I bought my first mp3 player (not an iPod) a couple of months ago, and it had that warning. Not that the highest volume is all that loud, even if you use earphones that don’t suck ass, like the ones that came with it.
Can’t speak for other players, but the iPod can produce some pretty good volume.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/6 "2006-02-02T18:41:19Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#):
>
> Can’t speak for other players, but the iPod can produce some pretty good volume.
Ah. I guess that’s what happens when you spend more than $39.95 at CVS for a player.
How much would it cost Apple to include warnings? Any business person know?
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/7 "2006-02-02T18:52:42Z")
Personally I don’t find the Ipod to have a particularly high volume compared to past devices I’ve owned.
This lawsuit is “teh stupid”.
I hope Apple throws a bunch of expensive lawyers at him and sticks him with the bill.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/8 "2006-02-02T18:57:28Z")
> [@World Eater](#):
>
> I hope Apple throws a bunch of expensive lawyers at him and sticks him with the bill.
The outcome I’m hoping for is that he wins. He is awarded $0.50, and Apple has to put warnings on the iPods.
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### Author:  [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/9 "2006-02-02T19:02:40Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> The outcome I’m hoping for is that he wins. He is awarded $0.50, and Apple has to put warnings on the iPods.
See post #3 above. They already include a warning with the iPods, it’s just not on a sticker.
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/10 "2006-02-02T19:03:55Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> The outcome I’m hoping for is that he wins. He is awarded $0.50, and Apple has to put warnings on the iPods.
He can still get a big bag of cheese doodles (cheeze doodlez?) with 50 cents, let’s make it .25
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/11 "2006-02-02T19:13:30Z")
Maybe Apple can produce a large-type sticker, with easier-to-read warnings, about 3" x 5", and apply it to the outside of his Ipod so that every time he picked it up, he would see the warning… granted, this would have an impact on the useability of the device, but what price hearing safety?
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/12 "2006-02-02T19:16:38Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#):
>
> See post #3 above. They already include a warning with the iPods, it’s just not on a sticker.
Ah, I missed that. Thanks.
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/13 "2006-02-02T19:27:37Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Maybe Apple can produce a large-type sticker, with easier-to-read warnings, about 3" x 5", and apply it to the outside of his Ipod so that every time he picked it up, he would see the warning… granted, this would have an impact on the useability of the device, but what price hearing safety?
How about a warning tag on the earbuds that is illegal to remove? They did it with pillows!
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### Author:  [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/14 "2006-02-02T19:28:17Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#):
>
> Well, it does look like he’s got a case… from the linked article:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Apple was forced to pull the iPod from store shelves in France and upgrade software on the device to limit sound to 100 decibels, but has not followed suit in the United States, according to the complaint.
This didn’t happen because they got sued–they did it to comply with French law, which limits all such devices to 100 decibels.
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### Author:  [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/15 "2006-02-02T19:38:04Z")
I’m sure everyone’s having lots of fun talking out of their ass, and far be it for me to rain on your parade, but this is a legit case. Over the last several months I’ve seen a million articles on how earbud headphones and iPods in particular have a much greater risk of causing hearing loss than previously predicted. That’s a design defect if I ever heard one.
I don’t know if the case is a winner. But it’s not bullshit, and if we’re lucky it will lead to Apple and the copycats redsesigning their product in such a way that if won’t cause thousands to go deaf.
–Cliffy
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### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/16 "2006-02-02T19:44:14Z")
I’m sort of with Cliffy here.
There’s frivolous lawsuits out there, to be sure.
But, IF Apple is releasing a device that, when used in a reasonable fashion, produces ear damage, then they’re culpable.
Anyway, that’s how I see it. This isn’t a case of a guy hacking into the iPod and disabling a “volume governor” and suffering hearing loss. If you put the ear buds in properly, and use the given volume control, I do’nt think you should have to suffer hearing loss.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/17 "2006-02-02T19:46:13Z")
Geez, **Cliffy** , I hope not. Ear-splitting stereos and headphones have been a proud tradition since at least the early 70s, probably longer. I used to damige brane sells listening to Dark Side of the Moon as a teenager. And I take full responsibility for that. A law that limits decibels seems like so much government-as-nanny to me.
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/18 "2006-02-02T20:06:57Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Geez, **Cliffy** , I hope not. Ear-splitting stereos and headphones have been a proud tradition since at least the early 70s, probably longer. I used to damige brane sells listening to Dark Side of the Moon as a teenager. And I take full responsibility for that. A law that limits decibels seems like so much government-as-nanny to me.
Cliffy is one of those who likes the idea of government-as-nanny. This is consistant with his posting history.
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### Author:  [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/19 "2006-02-02T20:44:18Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Geez, **Cliffy** , I hope not. Ear-splitting stereos and headphones have been a proud tradition since at least the early 70s, probably longer. I used to damige brane sells listening to Dark Side of the Moon as a teenager. And I take full responsibility for that.
That would explain a lot right there. 😉
All kidding aside, I don’t understand the difference between an iPod and the Walkmen of my yoot. They both send loud noise right into your ears. Somehow, we dealt with the whole Walkman thing, and I think we’ll deal with the iPod thing.
Robin, who listens to her iPod at volumes somewhat lower than a Disaster Area concert
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### Author:  [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiot-sues-apple-over-defective-ipods/342696/20 "2006-02-02T20:48:10Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> I’m sure everyone’s having lots of fun talking out of their ass, and far be it for me to rain on your parade, but this is a legit case. Over the last several months I’ve seen a million articles on how earbud headphones and iPods in particular have a much greater risk of causing hearing loss than previously predicted. That’s a design defect if I ever heard one.
>
> I don’t know if the case is a winner. But it’s not bullshit, and if we’re lucky it will lead to Apple and the copycats redsesigning their product in such a way that if won’t cause thousands to go deaf.
>
> –Cliffy
And do they cause hearing loss if they’re not turned up too loud? If that’s the case, a warning label isn’t really sufficient. But if I can set my music player to a reasonable volume without damaging my hearing, then I don’t see why we should worry about people who choose not to do so.
Granted, I’m not taking any real stance on this lawsuit because I don’t trust any news stories about frivolous lawsuits. The great majority of these stories vastly distort the truth in order to push the idea that frivolous lawsuits are destroying the world. But on the face of it, I see no reason why iPods shouldn’t be able to go louder than 100dB. If someone wants to risk their hearing on loud music, why shouldn’t they be able to? I’ve had music players that wouldn’t go loud enough on some albums because their maximum volume was so low and some CDs are recorded really quietly.
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