# Idiotic Orthodox Jewish Tradition Leads to Death of Seven Children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 22, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666 "2015-03-22T05:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/281 "2015-03-29T00:36:43Z")
I don’t know why people here even respond to Lobohan. His obvious hatred for Judaism is obvious - from calling it a “shitty religion” to comparing following its rituals to following the KKK. Don’t wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig likes it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/282 "2015-03-29T00:36:56Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I don’t recall anyone saying that this woman is an outlier or that leaving a hot plate on overnight was uncommon in her community. Don’t you? > [@Sarahfeena](#): > > This happened solely and completely because someone didn’t understand or heed the risks of keeping a hot plate on all day and night. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Seriously, there is no rule that orthodox Jews are supposed to leave a hot plate unattended. She obviously didn’t realize how dangerous it was or she wouldn’t have done it, because that is against the standard rules. > [@Malthus](#): > > It was only “risky” in this case because the family, through ignorance, poverty, or both, used an improper utensil to heat their food, and neglected to have fire alarms. > [@Malthus](#): > > According to this doctrine, it would be forbidden under Talmudic law to use an unsafe hot-plate to keep Sabbath, even if that was the only way to keep Sabbath and otherwise they could not. > [@Eiffel](#): > > You’re a one man case study in Dunning-Kruger effect. How could you see the argument about cause and effect in this thread and then just go “Hurrr the Sabbath makes people use their hotplates unsafely! What a dumb tradition!”? It’s not like it says somewhere in the Talmud “Thou must turn on thine hotplate before the Sabbath! Also, no smoke alarms!” > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The religion also says protect life before anything else. She would have hit the off switch had she known it would’ve cost lives. So either she misunderstood the religion or didn’t know it wasn’t safe. There is nothing in the religion that asks her to do a dangerous thing. > [@Malthus](#): > > No, what they did was unsafe by any reasonable standard - leaving an improper utensil (a hot plate) unattended, and worse, failing to have smoke alarms. > > I stress again that doing so in order to fulfill the Sabbath is directly contrary to the religion, which is quite specific on this exact issue. The rule " “Whenever there is a possible danger to life, the laws of Sabbath are superceded” - is found in the Talmud. Not ‘if death is on the line’, but a ‘posible danger to life’. Which, it has been noted repeatedly, using an unattended hot plate, and failing to have smoke alarms, clearly _is_ to any reasonable person. > > In short, if through poverty or whatever reason the only choice was to do as they did, or fail to keep the Sabbath - the religion itself commands: don’t keep the Sabbath. > [@Telemark](#): > > And the majority of those don’t leave unattended hotplates running in smoke-detector free homes. > [@TriPolar](#): > > If any religious person leaves a hot plate on overnight you could say that their religion made them stupid. In this case, as has been repeated many times already, this is not adherence to a religious practice, it’s actually a failure to understand the religion. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I agree, which is why I also said she was not aware of the risk or was assuming it will be ok, again this time. People run their ovens for heat and cause fires or CO poisoning even though they know better. People text and speed because up until the fatal crash nothing bad happened. > > No one is denying that she made an error in judgement in her observance of the religious ritual. There is nothing inherent about the ritual that causes it to be dangerous. Compare to snake handling, where the goal is to handle poisonous snakes- the risk is embedded in the ritual. There is no risk embedded in this ritual. > [@Telemark](#): > > I’m pretty sure their rabbi would have told them to get a crock pot and install smoke detectors. Sometimes people to ill-informed things with disastrous consequences, this is one such case. In the link above, you’ll note that hotplate use is common, and one of the community’s Rabbis does it himself. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/283 "2015-03-29T00:48:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t know why people here even respond to Lobohan. His obvious hatred for Judaism is obvious - from calling it a “shitty religion” to comparing following its rituals to following the KKK. I dislike Judiasm, and Christianity, and Islam, and Scientology, and whatever Moonieism is called properly, and a bunch more. But my dislike of the religion doesn’t mean I hate the people. Religion makes people delusional. It’s what it’s for. It’s pat, and simple answers to complex questions, and invariably, sometimes those answers won’t fit the real world. It’s destructive nature comes from the misfit and delusions. Religious people aren’t bad, _they’re victims_. Like this poor woman who just wanted to placate the God she feared, and feed a hot meal to the kids she loved. It’s a fucking tragedy, and she’s not wholly at fault. Because religion attacks you with emotion, under the layers of rational though. It sets up shields of fear that protect itself. Which is why it needs to be discarded, for the good of humanity. Hopefully sooner than later. > [@](#): > > Don’t wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig likes it. This is sweet indeed coming from a partisan imbecile that actually can’t formulate thoughts that go against the fibrous tangle of nonsense ideology that fills the gap between his ears. I don’t hate you for your religion. I pity the extent it had in turning you into the shitty person you are. And read for comprehension, jerkoff. I said that if you can’t criticize beliefs (like Judiasm, for instance), then you can’t criticize the KKK. You’re such a fucking cowardly liar that you have to make shit like that up, it’s sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/284 "2015-03-29T00:55:38Z")
As I said, and the pig likes it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/285 "2015-03-29T00:57:52Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > ONE question, PB… > > If this lady wasn’t religiously misled, would she have had the hot plate on for so long? > > I’ll help. The answer is NO. She could be feeble, insane, or just pleasantly confused about hot plate operation, but it was left on because her understanding of the sabbath requires this. > > Why are we focusing on one lady in this house? There’s, what, six other people who live there? Why didn’t they unplug it either? Respect for the woman’s belief’s? The sabbath is entirely stupid and shouldn’t be followed by anyone if it causes this much confusion as to how to act on such a pointless time of the week. One questions, Locrian… If the couple wasn’t religiously misled, would they have been driving that Sunday morning? No, of course not, they would have been sleeping in, like all good atheists. Your argument is silly, and depends on a prior belief that observing the sabbath is stupid, and if anything bad happens, it’s because you did this stupid thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/286 "2015-03-29T01:02:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As I said, and the pig likes it. This would be the cowardly part I was talking about. Just ignore that you lied about me equating Judaism with the KKK. I called them both beliefs, not said they were morally equal. Terr, can’t we just be friends? C’mon over, I’ll cook you a low-carb bacon cheeseburger. Or I’ll turn on the burner and let you cook it. \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/287 "2015-03-29T01:03:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > One questions, Locrian… > > If the couple wasn’t religiously misled, would they have been driving that Sunday morning? No, of course not, they would have been sleeping in, like all good atheists. > > Your argument is silly, and depends on a prior belief that observing the sabbath is stupid, and if anything bad happens, it’s because you did this stupid thing. Driving isn’t the same as leaving a hotplate on. Seriously. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/288 "2015-03-29T01:03:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Don’t you? > …In the link above, you’ll note that hotplate use is common, and one of the community’s Rabbis does it himself. You know what, if it’s actually all that common for people to leave hot plates on over night, and we’ve never heard of it before, then it’s not really all that freaking dangerous. Every winter I hear about a couple of fires caused by malfunctioning space heaters – devices designed to run unattended. (well, the nice ones are, maybe the cheap ones aren’t and that’s the problem.) What that suggests is that this was just bad luck. Well, bad luck and a lack of smoke detectors. If you want to blame something, blame that. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/289 "2015-03-29T01:04:34Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Don’t you? Well, now , let’s see. I see a lot of “there’s no rule that requires her to leave an unattended hot plate on overnight” and some “she didn’t understand/heed the risks” along with “she didn’t understand the rule properly”. The quote about the “majority of those don’t leave unattended hotplates running in smoke-detector free homes.” was in reference to the general population of adherents not her specific community which is much smaller than all Sabbath-observing Jews. The closest you get to “outlier” or “uncommon” is “I’m pretty sure their rabbi would have told them to get a crock pot and install smoke detectors.” Even if the rabbi would have said that, that still doesn’t mean Telemark was saying the woman was an outlier - it was in the context of blaming the rabbi for failing to instruct the community on the dangers of hot plates and failing to set up funds to purchase crockpots… Seems to me you don’t need to instruct the community because an outlier or three made a bad decision - you instruct the community because you believe a substantial number of people are making that bad decision. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/290 "2015-03-29T01:32:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Driving isn’t the same as leaving a hotplate on. Seriously. Think about it. Let’s see. Both are behaviors with some amount of risk that some people take for convenience in service of various goals, be those goals religiously motivated or otherwise. What is the big difference? Oh I know! One is a risk that you take for your goals and that is familiar to you and the other is something that a group of others do! I know you believe, on the basis of no information whatsoever, that the risk of a fatality from using a hot plate over night is greater on a per hour use. Such is not obviously true. If one does not count this event I cannot find a single report of a death associated with hot plates. But driving and hotplates are too much apples and oranges for you then please respond to my personal stockpot example. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/291 "2015-03-29T01:48:13Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > One questions, Locrian… > > If the couple wasn’t religiously misled, would they have been driving that Sunday morning? No, of course not, they would have been sleeping in, like all good atheists. > > Your argument is silly, and depends on a prior belief that observing the sabbath is stupid, and if anything bad happens, it’s because you did this stupid thing. The driving example was posted by someone else. I was saying it wasn’t comparable in another post. And no, the sabbath is stupid because it causes people to forgo common sense and burn the house down. (in this case) Why hasn’t anyone else asked about the rest of the people in this house? Surely they knew about the dangers of leaving it on too. Why not turn it off for her? I believe the same fear of pissing of the bearded one is in play. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/292 "2015-03-29T02:01:58Z")
So, driving then. First of all it’s perfectly rational to trade safety for convenience using a cost benefit analysis. The beliefs behind Catholic mass are completely braindead. I have been to a few and the stupid is strong. The sermons are infantile, the synchronized arm waiving and automaton-like mumbling is creepy, the bread thing is disgusting and the donation basket is the icing on the cake. Driving to get from point A to point B isn’t like that. It’s a rational mode of transportation, regardless of the motive. The analogy you are looking for is driving blindfolded because of voodoo beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/293 "2015-03-29T02:10:01Z")
If anyone’s truly worried about devout Jews going up in flames, there are [Shabbat hot plates](http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=shabbat+hot+plate) which, I presume, are made to be left on all day safely. (Implied warranty and all that.) ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/294 "2015-03-29T05:56:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t know why people here even respond to Lobohan. His obvious hatred for Judaism is obvious - from calling it a “shitty religion” to comparing following its rituals to following the KKK. > > Don’t wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig likes it. You know it pains me, but I must agree with you here. However, I think these posts are the most enlightening (my bold): > [@Lobohan](#): > > He didn’t actually say anything at all. He is a daydream that some **smelly desert dwellers with huge parasite loads and matted beards** made up before switches to turn on fire was even fathomable. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Presumably she knew better than to leave a hotplate on for a day unattended, in general life. If you leave a hotplate on unattended for a day because you forgot, it’s a sad mistake. If you know it’s foolish, and you do it anyway, because you’re trying to satisfy a myth made up by **a guy who smelled like a hobo** and thought 3=π, that’s more stupid, yes. Ah, yes. Our dirty, smelly, disease ridden ancestors. Gee, where have we heard that before? Not very creative for an alleged modern thinker. I suppose we should consider it progress that he only refers to modern day Jews as douche-bags, pussies, connivers, and retards. > [@Lobohan](#): > > But my dislike of the religion doesn’t mean I hate the people. Of course not! I’m sure there’s a perfectly rational explanation for the relevance of these personal depictions of _people_. Just like there was a good reason to post the “Burn” jpg. He’s only kidding! Have some pork, Jews!\* Ha Ha Ha! Get it? (\*Why do they always think that pork = kryptonite?) > [@Locrian](#): > > Why hasn’t anyone else asked about the rest of the people in this house? Surely they knew about the dangers of leaving it on too. Why not turn it off for her? I believe the same fear of pissing of the bearded one is in play. You keep posting this. What other people??? The father/husband was away, and the mother/wife and _children_ were upstairs. _Sleeping_. Even if they were awake, you were expecting young children and teens (of any religious persuasion or no religious persuasion) to think about something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/295 "2015-03-29T06:23:29Z")
> [@camille](#): > > You know it pains me, but I must agree with you here. However, I think these posts are the most enlightening (my bold): > Ah, yes. Our dirty, smelly, disease ridden ancestors. Gee, where have we heard that before? Not very creative for an alleged modern thinker. I suppose we should consider it progress that he only refers to modern day Jews as douche-bags, pussies, connivers, and retards. > > Of course not! I’m sure there’s a perfectly rational explanation for the relevance of these personal depictions of _people_. Just like there was a good reason to post the “Burn” jpg. He’s only kidding! Have some pork, Jews!\* Ha Ha Ha! Get it? > (\*Why do they always think that pork = kryptonite?) Please don’t call me an anti-Semite. It’s dishonest, and is nothing more than an attempt on your part to get around having to argue worth a shit. I don’t hate religious people, they are the victims of their religions, systems of organized brainwashing that propagate through history, causing untold hatred, strife and chaos, for nothing but the comforting delusion of life after death. I hate that modern men and women are beholden to stinking primitives, the profoundly ignorant bronze age shitbeards who made up this nonsense. And that goes for the iron age shitbeards who made up Christianity and Islam as well. Or the stone-age shitbeards who first looked into a thundering sky and said, “Hey, I bet that means someone up there is pissed off at me.” Thousands of years ago people were brutish, and profoundly ignorant. If you wanted advice on medical treatment, or architecture, you certainly wouldn’t go to some smelly ignoramus from the ass-end of antiquity. You shouldn’t go to that guy for moral advice on how to live your life, either. He simply doesn’t have enough information to generate advice that’s relevant to you, as a modern person. So don’t call me a racist you piece of shit. I don’t hate any race. I hate shitty ignorant organizations that do nothing but generate ignorance and delusion. I happen to be of mixed race myself, and I grew up in the most multi-cultural state in the union. So please, stuff it up your wazoo. Thank you. \<3 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/296 "2015-03-29T11:49:18Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > The driving example was posted by someone else. I was saying it wasn’t comparable in another post. And no, the sabbath is stupid because it causes people to forgo common sense and burn the house down. (in this case) > > Why hasn’t anyone else asked about the rest of the people in this house? Surely they knew about the dangers of leaving it on too. Why not turn it off for her? I believe the same fear of pissing of the bearded one is in play. No, there’s nothing about observing the Sabbath that causes people to lose common sense. If this woman thought it was okay to leave a hot plate on over the Sabbath she would have been just as comfortable doing it to make stock overnight. Judaism explicitly forbids increasing the risk of death by Sabbath observance. Maybe she was tragically wrong about the safety of hot plates, or maybe it was a tragic failure of that hot plate. In neither case is it the fault of “Sabbath” any more than the auto accident is the fault of “church”. Fwiw, Jews don’t spend their energy fearing that they might be pissing off God. They do spend energy trying to please God. I’m sure you don’t care, but it’s a very different psychology. I can’t believe I am posting here, supporting the rules of orthodox Judaism. I think those rules are ridiculous. I reject those rules in my everyday life. But they aren’t half as ridiculous as the arguments I am disputing here. You guys have no idea what the rules say, and are making up strawmen to pilory. All because (some of) you have a deep irrational hatred either for Judaism or for religion in general. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/297 "2015-03-29T13:04:45Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I can’t believe I am posting here, supporting the rules of orthodox Judaism. I think those rules are ridiculous. I reject those rules in my everyday life. But they aren’t half as ridiculous as the arguments I am disputing here. You guys have no idea what the rules say, and are making up strawmen to pilory. All because (some of) you have a deep irrational hatred either for Judaism or for religion in general. Are people scripted à la telemarketing drones as part of their indoctrination into religious cults? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/298 "2015-03-29T13:45:00Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Are people scripted à la telemarketing drones as part of their indoctrination into religious cults? Probably some are. If you are suggesting I am part of a religious cult, you are mistaken. I am an agnostic, leaning atheist, who was raised as a Reform Jew. I have an interest in Orthodox Judaism, and have enough Orthodox friends to have discussed it a lot with them. Unlike a lot of atheists, I see that my religious friends seem to get a lot of value out of their religion. The rules of Orthodox Judaism are ridiculous, but they help to cement close, supportive communities that people really want to be a part of. And they don’t seem to prevent people from earning a living, rearing children, or living a long and happy life. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/299 "2015-03-29T13:54:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Probably some are. > > If you are suggesting I am part of a religious cult, you are mistaken. I am an agnostic, leaning atheist, who was raised as a Reform Jew. I have an interest in Orthodox Judaism, and have enough Orthodox friends to have discussed it a lot with them. Unlike a lot of atheists, I see that my religious friends seem to get a lot of value out of their religion. The rules of Orthodox Judaism are ridiculous, but they help to cement close, supportive communities that people really want to be a part of. And they don’t seem to prevent people from earning a living, rearing children, or living a long and happy life. I agree it creates close knit communities. That and a sense of identity are probably why the Orthodox stick to such an obviously flawed world view. In my opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666/300 "2015-03-29T14:02:42Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > I agree it creates close knit communities. That and a sense of identity are probably why the Orthodox stick to such an obviously flawed world view. In my opinion, of course. Some stick to the community and not even the world view. I’ve known two practicing Orthodox Jews who told me they don’t believe in God. They don’t say that publicly in their communities, of course, but those communities don’t demand a statement of faith beyond muttering Hebrew prayers along with the congregation. Both told me that they nonetheless keep the Law, keep kosher, follow the Sabbath restrictions, because that is the price of admission to the community they want to remain a part of. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiotic-orthodox-jewish-tradition-leads-to-death-of-seven-children/715666.md?page=16)