# Idiots and Professional Careers **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 20, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498 "2018-05-20T08:56:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/1 "2018-05-20T08:56:23Z")
I hope this is an isolated experience for someone in my age group (30) but I’ve noticed something over the years… The complete wrecks, \*\*idiots \*\*and party animal type ‘C’ students/otherwise complete dumpster fires I’ve known through the years became Doctors, Accountants, Teachers/Instructors, Legal experts etc. Those who are by far more intelligent (street smarts as well as in school) became Mechanics, Cops, Sheriff’s Deputies (Jails), Tradesmen and friggin janitors. Some of the idiots were not raised financially privileged and some of the smart ones actually were… Is there some new trend I’m not aware of or did I miss something? What do you all think of this? Any thoughts? It scares the crap out of me that some of these people got into professional careers… ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/2 "2018-05-20T10:18:36Z")
Yeah everyone knows accountants are party animals. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/3 "2018-05-20T11:18:59Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Yeah everyone knows accountants are party animals. How do you figure? It’s not something they excel at. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/4 "2018-05-20T11:41:42Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > Is there some new trend I’m not aware of or did I miss something? Confirmation bias. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/5 "2018-05-20T11:46:42Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How do you figure? It’s not something they excel at. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/6 "2018-05-20T12:04:44Z")
Before the thread completely deteriorates to accountant jokes… anomalous1, I think you’ll have to define “idiots and wrecks” a little better (Party animals I understand). To get the jobs you describe them getting, you do have to be a reasonably good student, in several cases that you cite they have to study for many years, so obviously they have _something_ on the ball. You also need to define when you observed these characteristics. High School or first two years of college? Hell, damn near any of us were knuckleheads at this time, at least now and then. But people have been known to grow up (excepting most of the Straight Dope posters 🆒:p;) ) and do a fairly good job of adulting in their later years. I think Telemark probably has it, confirmation bias with perhaps a side of a couple of personal experiences = actual facts. I think you need to add some more muscle to your opinion. IMHO as always. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/7 "2018-05-20T12:44:21Z")
A couple reasons: 1. Confirmation bias. 2. It is possible to be a complete and total idiot, yet still have a successful professional carreer. There are plenty of stories on this forum\* describing, for example, engineers who are young-earth creationists, or lawyers who believe Obama is a Muslim, etc. \*(mostly Dopers complaining about facebook posts from their relatives 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/8 "2018-05-20T12:51:54Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Confirmation bias. Bingo. Always stop and consider the possibility of confirmation bias contributing to a situation. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/9 "2018-05-20T13:31:13Z")
Intelligence and motivation are not the same. Employers tend to reward motivation more. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/10 "2018-05-20T13:51:47Z")
Have we considered the possibility of confirmation bias? There are of course physicians capable of believing ten stupid things before breakfast, but most of them do their jobs competently. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/11 "2018-05-20T14:15:07Z")
There are at least a couple of reasons that people in professions which should require high intelligence can come across in certain situations as being a little crazy and people in professions that don’t pay that well and don’t give the people in them any real power in the world are often very smart people who you would have thought would be doing something else. The first is that smart people often believe in strange conspiracy theories even though you’d think that they’re smart enough to be able to see the holes in them. The problem is that they are also smart enough to come up with desperate ways to prop up their conspiracy theories. They don’t want to have to really investigate if their theories are ridiculous. They want to keep believing the same thing by whatever method it takes. I suspect that it’s also true that they’ve learned to separate their professional and personal lives enough that they can act crazy on the weekend and then shut that down for the work week and get their jobs done: > **[Why Smart People Still Believe Conspiracy Theories](https://time.com/5023383/conspiracy-theories-reasons-believe/)** > > A new study provides an answer The second is that we don’t live a society that’s really egalitarian. If you grow up in a social strata where very few people move into a higher-level social strata where you have a job making considerably more money and having considerably more power, you’ll find that it’s made hard for you, no matter how smart you are and how hard you work, to move into such a job. And it’s made hard for you both by those in your own strata and those in a strata above you. There are all sorts of barriers set up by those in higher stratas to make it hard for you to succeed no matter how hard you work and how smart you are. You also don’t get that much encouragement from people in your own strata, who sometimes think you’re a snob and a traitor for wanting to make it into a high strata: > **[The Rich Aren't Rich Because They Work Harder. They Work Harder Because...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-rich-arent-rich-becau_b_4791626)** > > The path to financial stability is harder to navigate than it has been in almost a century. And yet, the 99 percent forge ahead unappreciated by the fortunate few who reap the profits and call themselves deserving. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/12 "2018-05-20T14:36:50Z")
Don’t most white-collar professional careers like physician, lawyer or accountant require above average grades to even enter the required academic degree? That acts as a floor on the amount of impulse-control, intelligence and diligence. Not a perfect floor but pretty good. OP is analogous to noticing some out of shape soldiers, some athletic civilians and concluding that civilians tend to be more physically fit than soldiers. > [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The first is that smart people often believe in strange conspiracy theories even though you’d think that they’re smart enough to be able to see the holes in them. The problem is that they are also smart enough to come up with desperate ways to prop up their conspiracy theories. They don’t want to have to really investigate if their theories are ridiculous. They want to keep believing the same thing by whatever method it takes. I suspect that it’s also true that they’ve learned to separate their professional and personal lives enough that they can act crazy on the weekend and then shut that down for the work week and get their jobs done: Are smart people more, equally or less likely than dumb people to believe in strange conspiracy theories? Smart people may be better at coming up with bullshit arguments but dumb people are less demanding of the bullshit arguments they’ll accept. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/13 "2018-05-20T14:43:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There are of course physicians capable of believing ten stupid things before breakfast, but most of them do their jobs competently. Then again, you know what they call it he person who graduates medical school last in his class. doctor ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/14 "2018-05-20T15:17:55Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Bingo. Always stop and consider the possibility of confirmation bias contributing to a situation. There’s also sample size. The OP’s knowledge of the behavior of “Doctors, Accountants, Teachers/Instructors, Legal experts etc.” may be based on four people. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/15 "2018-05-20T15:17:57Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I hope this is an isolated experience for someone in my age group (30) but I’ve noticed something over the years… The complete wrecks, \*\*idiots \*\*and party animal type ‘C’ students/otherwise complete dumpster fires I’ve known through the years became Doctors, Accountants, Teachers/Instructors, Legal experts etc. Those who are by far more intelligent (street smarts as well as in school) became Mechanics, Cops, Sheriff’s Deputies (Jails), Tradesmen and friggin janitors. Agree with confirmation bias, with one minor caveat: It’s possible to fake one’s way through certain types of education, but not others. For instance, I do not for one minute believe Donald Trump did all of his own work for that Wharton business degree he has. But no person training to be a mechanic told to fix a car can get someone else to do it for him. It’s the same for any manual labor job: cheating is virtually impossible. It’s surprising, but bullshitting can take one pretty far in some pretty rarefied fields. Not saying it’s a given, just that it’s surprisingly easy at odd times to get away with things because one looks and sounds right. Con men exploit this tendency routinely. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/16 "2018-05-20T17:37:57Z")
Ben Carson is perhaps the greatest neurologist who ever lived. And after seeing him speak or attempt to learn anything not associated with that, I learned something. Not sure what, but something. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/17 "2018-05-20T17:38:44Z")
Mostly confirmation bias I think. You notice the examples that are outside of the norm for whatever their job is simply because they fall outside your expectations. The majority in the middle of the bell curve don’t rise to the level of awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/18 "2018-05-20T21:09:31Z")
Maybe there was more to those wrecks, idiots, and party animals than was obvious. Of the kids at my school who I still keep track of, there are no great surprises about where they ended up. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/19 "2018-05-20T21:26:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Have we considered the possibility of confirmation bias? > > . It seems like _everyone_ is saying this. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498/20 "2018-05-20T21:30:32Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Confirmation bias. > [@chappachula](#): > > A couple reasons: > > 1. Confirmation bias. > [@kayaker](#): > > Bingo. Always stop and consider the possibility of confirmation bias contributing to a situation. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Have we considered the possibility of confirmation bias? > [@Lizard](#): > > Agree with confirmation bias, with one minor caveat:… > [@Projammer](#): > > Mostly confirmation bias I think. You’re all just shoehorning the facts into your preconception that it’s not lizard people. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-and-professional-careers/814498.md?page=2)