# Idiots. I'm surrounded by \*idiots\*. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2001, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255 "2001-11-08T19:39:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pucette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@Pucette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucette)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/21 "2001-11-08T20:59:42Z")
Ogre: I think I can safely speak for Weirddave when I say “how quickly they forget…” 🙂 Maeglin: Food? Lodging? in NY? Damn skippy diplomacy is more important! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tricia\_Valentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Tricia\_Valentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tricia_Valentine)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/22 "2001-11-08T21:36:25Z")
Sounds suspiciously like something I might like. Anyone care to share/teach/show me where to go?? ~C~ ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/23 "2001-11-08T21:45:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > Ah, for the glory days of Maeglin’s Dip games (bastard dropped the ball) when **lno** and I wrote _reams_ of discussion back and forth. > [@](#): > > I almost rode Germany’s coat-tails to a second place last time. Bar none, that was the most satisfying alliance I’ve ever had in a dip game. The carefully choreographed stab of Britain, the proxy war fought between Russia and Turkey, the pretense of “attacking” while reassuring the country that I wasn’t _really_ attacking it while reassuring the other that I really _was_… You guys know I’m up for another game. I’d offer to moderate one, **Maeglin** , but I want to cross swords with you [sub]and make you cry like a little girl[/sub] on the field of honour. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/24 "2001-11-08T21:45:49Z")
What Tricia said. I’ve never played it, but it sounds like something I’d enjoy. Any recommendations on where to get started (and I’m talking from scratch), without ruining the fun of you Grandmaster Flashes? ---
**Author:** ![Pucette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@Pucette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucette)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/25 "2001-11-08T21:58:00Z")
[This](http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/) place has a very comprehensive set of rules and strategies. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/26 "2001-11-08T22:01:06Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/27 "2001-11-08T22:03:40Z")
For those looking to start playing: Drop by any hobby store that carries war games. You might be able to find copies in local toy stores as well; it’s published by Hasbro (originally by Avalon Hill). There is, unfortunately, no on-line source that I’ve seen that actually explains the rules, which is a bummer when you’re trying to do something over e-mail and can’t quite remember whether certain moves would work. After you’ve gotten the game and read the rules, do a search for “DipPouch” (given how many times I’ve said this, _I_ should do a frigging search and get the address myself). There, you’ll find a link to “Strategic Resources”- it’s a bunch of articles and essays about how to really play the game, the strengths and weaknesses of each country, etc. Note that many of the articles are contradictory. Still, it’s a start, and you’ll start to understand all that can affect the country you end up playing. **lno** - Jesus, the stabbing we gave oldscratch in that game was a horror never designed to be perpetrated upon any poor soul. France grows big attacking Germany; Germany and Italy turn to Britain and say, “We can stop France, but only if you help, and if you don’t help, France goes for you next.” Britain agrees, and together the three of us knock France down to two SCs. And then, in the final stroke, in order to wipe France from the map, we send some British units forward… and in perfect cohesion, slip our own units into the SCs the Brits just left. IIRC, at least one British army was destroyed because it didn’t succeed in the battle (because we didn’t bother to support it) and had nowhere to retreat to (because we gobbled up all the areas around it). Lordy, that game will forever be a triumph of mine. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/28 "2001-11-08T22:10:55Z")
The Diplomatic Pouch can be found at [http://www.diplom.org/](http://www.diplom.org/). Along with the Dip Archive that **Pucette** linked to, it provides pretty much everything you could want to know. The rules aren’t available online as far as I can tell, but there is the Diplomacy Player’s Technical Guide (google for it- you can find it all over, and [here](http://worldmasters99.diplomacy.org.uk/dptg.txt) is an ascii doc of it) which clarifies all of the rules once you’ve got a general idea. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/29 "2001-11-08T22:26:13Z")
Since the rules are copyrighted, no one has published them on the internet. As for running a game on Cat23, well, I confess I have my reservations. I like a more friendly, pick-up atmosphere. Friendliness is so much more conducive to humiliating **lno** , which, as everyone knows, I will surely do. They are just so damned _serious_ at Cat23. If I am to moderate a game, I would prefer to do it solo. But I leave it to the judgment of everyone else. And don’t worry, **JC** , I wasn’t actually upset. I should have used a smiley, but I thought that my snarkiness would have made it obvious that I wasn’t offended. In retrospect, that seems like that was pretty shoddy reasoning. 😉 MR ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/30 "2001-11-08T23:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ogre \* > \*\*Ah, sweet Diplomacy. I’d never played before Maeglin’s game, and we somehow let Russia spin out of control before I fully understood the rules. Since I was Germany, this was a major problem. Austria had been utterly crushed early on by an unholy alliance of myself, Italy (the lovely-yet-merciless Pucette), and Turkey. > > Austria collapsed like a popped balloon. > > Then, not paying attention, we let Russia grab the upper hand in a major way. Soon, he owned Scandinavia, Denmark, a good chunk of England, and was knocking on the door to Germany and France. > > In one brutal, elegant thrust, Pucette and I cemented our alliance with a beautiful feint and coup-de-grace, crippling Russia forever. > > I’m still a bit sullen that we weren’t able to finish pulping Russia. 🙂 \*\* Bastards. -Czar Dave the First. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/31 "2001-11-08T23:32:00Z")
And I’m definitely up for another game. John, e-mail me, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/32 "2001-11-08T23:38:09Z")
Oh, and one final thing. I would have owned all of y’all lock stock and barrel if I hadn’t let personal considerations for the person playing Turkey intrude on my board play. Instead I ceded Turkey to Italy, which allowed her to get into a position to join with you and stab me. Ask Pucette, she’ll verify that this was indeed the case. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/33 "2001-11-08T23:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Oh, and one final thing. I would have owned all of y’all lock stock and barrel if I hadn’t let personal considerations for the person playing Turkey intrude on my board play. Instead I ceded Turkey to Italy, which allowed her to get into a position to join with you and stab me. Ask Pucette, she’ll verify that this was indeed the case. \*\* Oh, I know, Dave. 🙂 I remember that Italy was in a bad, bad way, and that you let her invade Turkey. You just didn’t realize that you were doing me a GIANT favor too. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/34 "2001-11-08T23:51:13Z")
…or more accurately, that you held off on your invasion while she consolidated Turkey. Don’t kill me, Pucette. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/35 "2001-11-09T01:19:41Z")
OK…here’s the drill. I’ve registered us at Cat23 (Don’t worry **Maeglin** , I can ensure that it’s a Dope-Only game) as… Diplomacy Cat23 Game Cecil 934 I’ve built the skeleton of a website for it at: [http://www.wooleysark.com/dip](http://www.wooleysark.com/dip) Just click on the appropriate game to see what’s what. Currently I have: **John Corrado Weirddave** In the game. Everyone else has to email me at my work account to get in. That’s [nwooley@pur.com](mailto:nwooley@pur.com) for those of you scoring at home. If I don’t get another 5 players by 8AM tomorrow, I will make a thread in MPSIMS about the game and fill it from there. So if you’re reading this thread that’s my little bonus for you. If there is enough demand I’ll add a second game and GM that one as well. Turns will be every 4-7 days. I don’t allow NMR (No Move Received for the rookies). If someone fails to submit orders on time and has no excuse I’ll drop them from the game and ask for someone to replace them from MPSIMS. Warning: if no one from MPSIMS signs on when we need a replacement I’ll go to my stable of weird-ass pals to fill the slot. And when it comes to weird-ass friends I have the markets cornered. So who’s in? Y’know…y’all **talk** a good game… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/36 "2001-11-09T01:24:04Z")
I cannot tell a lie. It is impossible for me to pass up the chance to play. I’m in. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/37 "2001-11-09T01:26:22Z")
Sorry. I’m out of town all the time, and it’s too damn much trouble to try to catch back up when I get back. I ended up delaying the game several times for Maeglin. I’d end up being dropped sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/38 "2001-11-09T01:29:37Z")
**Maeglin** , that was your 2000th post! I’m honored! You’re in. Players now consist of: **John Corrado Weirddave Maeglin** **Ogre** , I well understand. Perhaps someday we’ll play in person for a day. That’s fun, too. Of course, I’m in Virginia… Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/39 "2001-11-09T01:37:28Z")
**lno** just joined up. Players so far: **John Corrado Weirddave Maeglin lno** There’s a total of ten potential slots still open folks. Join whilst you can! PS - Hey, is that like I-no (pronounced eye-en-oh) or L-no (pronounced ell-en-oh)? I’ve never been able to tell. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255/40 "2001-11-09T01:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > I cannot tell a lie. It is impossible for me to pass up the chance to play. I’m in. And with your two thousandth post, you have signed your death warrant. I’m in. (and it’s a lower-case l, pronounced ell-en-oh) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-im-surrounded-by-idiots/92255.md?page=3)