# Idiots ruining my favorite video game **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802 "2011-10-06T17:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/21 "2011-10-06T20:15:08Z")
What’s “the metagame”? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/22 "2011-10-06T20:22:40Z")
Blizzard banned the cards? Don’t you mean Wizards of the Coast? Also say I want to be a professional SC2 player. How do I get started? Edit: And it’s a serious question - though not specifically for me, so no joke retorts like: “Become Korean!” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/23 "2011-10-06T20:35:30Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Buff hunters! > > (Semi-)seriously, though. Just because the character in question hasn’t won a tournament doesn’t mean it’s not overpowered. In fact, it’s not uncommon for a character to be OP in the sense that in the hands of lesser players it performs extremely well. These generally receive the most ire because nobody likes losing to an inferior player just because they’re playing an OP character. Not even that applies though. I worked my ass off to get to my level, and so did everyone else successful with the character. And even if it is a noob-friendly char, so what? We don’t care if it’s easy to stomp noobs like that; we’re competitive. We demand people get better. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Brawl tournaments suck; melee is better. > > /threadcontribution Brawl- \> Brawl \> Melee Get@me > [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](#): > > If what you say is true, then yeah, a ban was stupid. But for for quite a long time the metagame was totally warped by Meta Knight, was it not? That kind of stuff drives people away from the game. Never was here. That I’m like, the third-best MK in the country should really say something, because I’m really quite average. > [@bucketybuck](#): > > Haha. Your character is massively overpowered and you still can’t win fuck all. How shite are you then? 😉 If by “massively overpowered” you mean “slightly better than the next-best character”, then yes, my character is massively overpowered. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/24 "2011-10-06T20:59:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Not even that applies though. I worked my ass off to get to my level, and so did everyone else successful with the character. And even if it is a noob-friendly char, so what? We don’t care if it’s easy to stomp noobs like that; we’re competitive. We demand people get better. But you have to realize that they don’t balance isn’t just about the top tier of players; in fact, it often is with almost no regard to them. In general, a top tier player will be able to adjust to changes, even to a different character, and probably perform at roughly the same level after relearning. I’m unfamiliar with Brawl, but it’s entirely possible that a particular character is both over-powered for underskilled players and either well balanced for top tier or even under-powered. Similarly, it’s possible that a character is extremely difficult for underskilled players so as to essentially be underpowered for them but with high levels of skill be extremely powerful. In this scenario, you might see the former type highly over represented in lower tiers of skill and see generally better players lose to them and thus result in a ban. Similarly, you might see a scenario where the latter character is over-represented in top tier, but not getting banned because the over-representation is due to a higher skill cap, not an inherent over-poweredness for the same level of skill. Thus, because the winners are still winning because of skill, and not because of the character, it’s unlikely that it will get banned, especially since anyone can always change to a character with a high skill cap, but over-powered characters will cause bizarre representations of skill, particularly at the point where the over-poweredness of that character crosses the skill requirement for other characters to compete equally. Either way, complaining about it is dumb. As others said, rebalancing is an important part of any sort of competitive gaming and as console games can’t be patched, it’s up to the gaming leagues to establish and enforce rules to try to maintain a decent correlation of skill to success. And, of course, another thing to consider is that maybe you aren’t actually as skilled as you think you are and that you’re only ranking as high as you are because of how over-powered the class is. Either way, as with any other competitive gaming, you can either choose to adjust, perhaps consider learning one of the characters that’s well represented amongst the top competitors, or to choose another game to play instead. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/25 "2011-10-06T21:24:32Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > What’s “the metagame”? Not complicated: in any complex competitive game, there’s almost always a “metagame.” Basically, it’s the overall scheme of what’s hot and what’s not. The smaller the group, the more volatile (prone to change) the metagame is. It’s really just a measure of what the local culture likes to do. So in Magic: The Gathering, the metagame right now might be that Blue cards with White or Black is hot. Even specific cards might be very popular. Understanding the metagame can be key to winning; if you know that Blue/White is popular, then you might build a deck to defeat it. Of course, that can start a new popular fashion as the Blue/White deck, changing the metagame. It’s complex and always in flux. You can even see metagames in places where in theory it should never matter, like weight lifting. People will choose different events to give their all on, based on what they think gives them the best chance of winning. Some team sports, like football, can have literal game-chanign seasons where a new metagame strategy completely overturns established strategy, though thing will naturally balance back over time. **Budget Player Cadet** is complaining (You may know this or not, so I’ll say it) that the character he loves has been removed. Meta Knight is considered a top-tier character to play. He plays a fighting game with a lot of video game characters. Now, Nintendo did not (repeat, did not) balance the game such that any character was equally good. While there’s a complicated scheme (some specific weaker characters can utterly demolish a “stronger” character), the basic idea is that some characters are top-tier and tend to dominate, while others are low-tier and rarely get played. Meta Knight is considered to be a powerful but risky character to use - he’s dependant on precision timing with mediocre defense but has a lot of power. To a new players he’s often invincible, but a lot of pros don’t like him. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/26 "2011-10-06T21:48:57Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > Blizzard banned the cards? > > Don’t you mean Wizards of the Coast? > > Also say I want to be a professional SC2 player. > > How do I get started? > Edit: And it’s a serious question - though not specifically for me, so no joke retorts like: “Become Korean!” Yeah, Wizards. I was thinking about whether to talk about M:tG or SC2 in my analogy and got them mixed up or something. If you want to become a pro SC2 player… practice, a lot. 6 hrs/day minimum. Work your way up, get some good practice partners (this is important), join a lesser team. Start entering open online tournaments to get a feel for how to play in tournaments. Start streaming when you hit Grand Masters to get your name out and supplement your income. Join a semi-pro team. Post good results. Get noticed. Get invited to join a pro team. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/27 "2011-10-06T22:31:26Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We don’t care if it’s easy to stomp noobs like that; we’re competitive. We demand people get better. Okay, get better. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/28 "2011-10-06T22:41:17Z")
I’m reminded of the essay on gaming about certain strategies being “cheap,” but damned if I can find it online. Turns out the word “cheap” has more than one meaning. Who knew? At any rate, banning a certain video game character seems to be giving in to the people that can’t find a way to beat it. That’s my two cents, though likely less as I know very little about the Smash Bros. tournaments/community. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/29 "2011-10-06T22:55:07Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’m reminded of the essay on gaming about certain strategies being “cheap,” but damned if I can find it online. Turns out the word “cheap” has more than one meaning. Who knew? > > At any rate, banning a certain video game character seems to be giving in to the people that can’t find a way to beat it. That’s my two cents, though likely less as I know very little about the Smash Bros. tournaments/community. Lets take the extreme example of a character where the player only has to press one button to win. The “best” player in the world is then whoever can push a single button the fastest. Should that character be banned or changed? Could any game accidentally introduce a character that cheapens gameplay by their mechanics being out of whack with the rest of the game? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/30 "2011-10-06T23:14:54Z")
Competitive gaming? That was the dream of a lot of Nintendo players back in the day. “I love the Power Glove. It’s so bad.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/31 "2011-10-06T23:15:09Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > At any rate, banning a certain video game character seems to be giving in to the people that can’t find a way to beat it. Ah yes, the age-old cry of “use tactics !”. Except of course the players who run said unbalanced characters don’t _have_ to use tactics at all, what with being overpowered and all. It’s kinda like playing chess with a guy who won’t let you have your side’s rooks, or wants to start with two queens ; and when you complain that the match isn’t going to be exactly fair exclaims that you just suck at the game if you can’t win that imbalanced match. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/32 "2011-10-06T23:17:30Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Lets take the extreme example of a character where the player only has to press one button to win. The “best” player in the world is then whoever can push a single button the fastest. Should that character be banned or changed? > > Could any game accidentally introduce a character that cheapens gameplay by their mechanics being out of whack with the rest of the game? The article’s logic would say “That is a bad game. Don’t play that game. There are lots of games without such a huge, glaring flaw.” The article is coming from the perspective that you are playing a relatively complex game, and that you care about getting better. If that game is fun outside of that one character, sure ban him, and why would you want to get better at that game anyway? But if it is a game like starcraft 2, the strategy that you can’t beat and want to ban probably has a counter, and is not good enough for pro play. If you want to get better at starcraft 2, you can’t ban that strategy, or you’ll never learn how to beat it. ---
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/33 "2011-10-06T23:35:17Z")
I believe the article you are likely talking about is buried somewhere here: [http://www.sirlin.net/ptw](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw) I was unable to find the exact tirade I remember. It is likely the guy cleaned it up and incorporated it into Intermediates Guide. However, [Introducing the Scrub](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html) and [What Should be Banned](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html) seem familiar and appropriate for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/34 "2011-10-06T23:46:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Ah yes, the age-old cry of “use tactics !”. > Except of course the players who run said unbalanced characters don’t _have_ to use tactics at all, what with being overpowered and all. As I said, my knowledge of the mechanics of the game itself are next to nothing when it comes to the competitive level so I have little idea if the character itself is a game breaker or not. The notion does seem debatable though based on the comments in this thread. > [@](#): > > It’s kinda like playing chess with a guy who won’t let you have your side’s rooks, or wants to start with two queens ; and when you complain that the match isn’t going to be exactly fair exclaims that you just suck at the game if you can’t win that imbalanced match. Or it could be kinda like playing a game and the person is simply better than you because they are more familiar with a character or more skilled at the game itself so you piss and moan about it and blame it on character choice. I’ll repeat myself for clarity purposes. I’ve no idea of the game so I can’t tell how accurate the above example is, but as it seems a gross overstatement I’m going to guess that it’s not very. If a character truly broke the game on a comparable level as removing pieces from your opponents chess set, it would have been banned in tournament play long ago and there would be zero debate over it. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/35 "2011-10-06T23:51:21Z")
> [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](#): > > I believe the article you are likely talking about is buried somewhere here: > [Playing to Win — Sirlin.Net — Game Design](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw) > > I was unable to find the exact tirade I remember. It is likely the guy cleaned it up and incorporated it into Intermediates Guide. However, [Introducing the Scrub](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html) and [What Should be Banned](http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned.html) seem familiar and appropriate for this thread. “Introducing the Scrub” is the one I was thinking of. Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/36 "2011-10-06T23:52:10Z")
Here’s my recommendation for your dilemma: Do a barrel roll! ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/37 "2011-10-07T00:44:01Z")
I’ve always found the Smash Bros series to be pretty unbalanced. Even on the original, Pikachu was essentially unbeatable in the hands of a skilled player. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/38 "2011-10-07T01:40:06Z")
I am not at all a professional Smash brothers player, I actually love modding it. But I do know that Metaknight is unequivocally broken. To make him fair you have to ban so much that he can do that it’s ridiculous. Yes it sucks that you will have to learn a new character if you want to keep competing in your community. But you had to see this coming. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/39 "2011-10-07T01:57:42Z")
What’s the deal with the rule-heavy SSB community? I don’t follow fighters, but I’m pretty sure it’s the only one with so many limitations. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802/40 "2011-10-07T02:00:59Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > What’s the deal with the rule-heavy SSB community? I don’t follow fighters, but I’m pretty sure it’s the only one with so many limitations. because it’s unbalanced and people want to take a party brawler seriously, which Nintendo never _really_ intended. Yes they include a tournament mode and such, but they don’t build Smash games with the hardcore in mind. They are meant to be fun party games, and people choose to take them seriously so they have to make up all these different rules in order to balance it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-ruining-my-favorite-video-game/598802.md?page=3)