# Idiots who pray **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189 "2012-08-21T18:05:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/121 "2012-08-24T12:57:27Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Can someone explain to me why atheists should politely accept prayer “in the spirit it was intended” but the Mormons posthumously baptize someone and all of the fires of Hades are unleashed upon their heads? I don’t personally believe in making a fuss about either of these things, but they’re not at all analogous. Those who get upset at Mormon posthumous baptism are offended by what they’re _intending_ to do, even though they don’t believe it will have any actual effect. The OP’s objection to prayer, on the other hand, seems to be _because_ he believes it doesn’t have any effect, despite the good intentions of the pray-er. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/122 "2012-08-24T13:07:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (Right now, I’m praying that everyone will stop being jackasses. That’s EVERYONE, I don’t care what you believe or don’t believe. Fuck it.) Amen. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/123 "2012-08-24T14:51:45Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > Can someone explain to me why atheists should politely accept prayer “in the spirit it was intended” but the Mormons posthumously baptize someone and all of the fires of Hades are unleashed upon their heads? > > This atheist cannot really see a difference between someone saying “God bless you” and someone performing a ritual that they believe will allow you to receive God’s blessings. Sounds fair. I am mildly annoyed that someday I will be posthumously baptized by a well-meaning family member. And I am mildly annoyed every time someone says “bless you” and then expectantly waits for me to say “thank you”. Neither is such a big deal if it makes a well-meaning person feel good about themselves. > [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Seriously? It seems pretty obvious to me that there’s a significant difference between, on the one hand, briefly and slightly intruding one’s faith on a living person who doesn’t share that faith, and on the other hand, **officially, ritually and permanently co-opting a dead person as a putative member of a faith they never chose in life**. > > Sheesh. Can you also not see a difference between being handed a military recruitment pamphlet and being drafted into the Army? You already underlined the part where your statement is inaccurate. Mormons don’t count the necro-dunked as **member** s. To use your recruitment analogy, it’s like receiving an official enrollment form that you did not ask for. You’re still being recruited, not drafted. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/124 "2012-08-24T14:59:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Seriously? It seems pretty obvious to me that there’s a significant difference between, on the one hand, briefly and slightly intruding one’s faith on a living person who doesn’t share that faith, and on the other hand, **officially, ritually and permanently co-opting a dead person as a putative member of a faith they never chose in life**. > > Sheesh. Can you also not see a difference between being handed a military recruitment pamphlet and being drafted into the Army? I don’t see the analogy to being drafted unless you claim that the ceremony has actual effect, in which case I would assume you would be grateful to the Mormon for providing the deceased a chance to know God that they missed in life. If the ceremony has no effect then I cannot see how it is more intrusive than the supposedly inoffensive prayer. Both are just the believer’s way of doing what they can to care for you and both are just as easily ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/125 "2012-08-24T14:59:54Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > You already underlined the part where your statement is inaccurate. Mormons don’t count the necro-dunked as **member** s. To use your recruitment analogy, it’s like receiving an official enrollment form that you did not ask for. You’re still being recruited, not drafted. In other words, even dying doesn’t stop them from knocking on your door. Death, taxes, _and_ Mormons. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/126 "2012-08-24T17:00:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > In other words, even dying doesn’t stop them from knocking on your door. Death, taxes, _and_ Mormons. 😃 Oh ya, that’s one of the big tasks for Mormons in the afterlife is to annoy everyone. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/127 "2012-08-24T18:01:21Z")
A few moths ago I and my brothers sat with out mother while she died. My sister is an ICU nurse at the same hospital and was monitoring her vitals. My mother was 94 yrs old and was dieing from respiratory failure. CO2 levels rising Oxegen saturation dropping. The last hour she would repeatedly drift off and was carrying on conversations with her dead brothers and sisters, particulary one of her cousins that she was closed to as a kid. My sister said her levels were far below her ability to be concious yet she was talking fairly clear and loud. She never once mentioned anyone who is still alive. 5 min before her actual death she woke up and asked for coffee, her last words were " Is this dam hospital out of sugar?" We probably had 20 family members in the room only a hanful are religious but they all seemed convinced she was communicating. My mother had a dreadful fear of death but in the last hours she had no fear, no struggling just peace. For whatever it is worth. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/128 "2012-08-24T18:05:33Z")
> [@badger5149](#): > > A few moths ago I and my brothers sat with out mother while she died. My sister is an ICU nurse at the same hospital and was monitoring her vitals. My mother was 94 yrs old and was dieing from respiratory failure. CO2 levels rising Oxegen saturation dropping. The last hour she would repeatedly drift off and was carrying on conversations with her dead brothers and sisters, particulary one of her cousins that she was closed to as a kid. My sister said her levels were far below her ability to be concious yet she was talking fairly clear and loud. She never once mentioned anyone who is still alive. 5 min before her actual death she woke up and asked for coffee, her last words were " Is this dam hospital out of sugar?" We probably had 20 family members in the room only a hanful are religious but they all seemed convinced she was communicating. My mother had a dreadful fear of death but in the last hours she had no fear, no struggling just peace. For whatever it is worth. Very sad to hear this. Hang in there. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/129 "2012-08-25T11:47:17Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > The OP’s objection to prayer, on the other hand, seems to be because he believes it doesn’t have any effect, despite the good intentions of the pray-er. Yeah, a waste of time on behalf of the person praying, comforting to the believers and vaguely irritating to the unbelievers when they’re informed of the actions. I totally see the analogy, I just think the populations are different (believers in the efficacy of prayer and believers in the possibility of posthumous conversion). ---
**Author:** ![Mom-of-Andrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@Mom-of-Andrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mom-of-Andrew)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/130 "2012-08-26T03:41:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > God hates that shit. The sneaky kneel gets the grace. This is great!! This one is going in permanent quote file (for whatever that means to you…) > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think the best thing to say when someone offers to pray for you is, " I really appreciate the fact that, in your misguided, delusional way, you mean well for me." 😛 > [@Morgenstern](#): > > How do you know they meant well? Precisely! I give you: “I’ll pray for you” [http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/jaron-&-the-long-road-to-love-lyrics/pray-for-you-lyrics.html](http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/jaron-&-the-long-road-to-love-lyrics/pray-for-you-lyrics.html) ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/131 "2012-08-26T17:47:42Z")
> [@badger5149](#): > > 5 min before her actual death she woke up and asked for coffee, her last words were " Is this dam hospital out of sugar?" I’m sorry hearing of the death of your mother, but this line made me smile. ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/132 "2012-12-08T00:36:53Z")
> [@Snite](#): > > What I really hate is all the bullshit prayers/praises over sports. If God isn’t gonna prevent widespread famine in other parts of the world, why the fuck does he care if Tebow throws a touchdown? Either he has a messed up sense of priorities, or Christians need to acknowledge that not every single thing that happens each day is part of God’s plan; otherwise, we have no free will and if we have no free will, then get off my back since it’s not my fault that I don’t believe. Hear, hear! Well put. Additionally, it would put the big G in a conundrum if BOTH sides of an all-important high school football prayed for victory, wouldn’t it? Besides- if everything that happens is His will and He is all knowing, then why would the special pleadings of ignoramuses like us wretches matter a damn to him? Or do the faithful who pray presume to know better than the Old Man in the Sky about how things ought to go down? The mind boggles. Unless you’re blessed with blind, sweet faith- then the whole thing makes sense. I guess.😕 ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/133 "2012-12-08T00:58:32Z")
I was going to post to this thread, but didn’t want to zombify the dad of Zombie Jesus, but now that it’s trending again… But I didn’t have much. I was going to explain how, when I turned into a dad, I became less hostile to the idea that God might want his “children” to talk to him, even if they don’t need to. And that he’d rather have kids with free will than to interfere in their lives… But then I thought I’d just post [raises hand] ---
**Author:** ![missyzilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9a28c/32.png) [@missyzilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missyzilly)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/134 "2012-12-08T06:02:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think prayer is redundant. If you believe, when you pray, you’re telling God what you want. But if he’s all-knowing, he already knows. So what’s the point of praying? Because he likes to be asked. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/135 "2012-12-08T11:08:04Z")
I followed the abduction/missing case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Iowa. The searches in this small area were massive. Even the mayor of the town flew his own private plane above the areas looking for clues. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Then two hunters find their bodies (shudders) a couple days ago. And here’s the clinker: Police chief said that (paraphrasing) if the hunters walked five feet in either direction, they wouldn’t have seen their bodies either. Citizens, neighbors, etc., searched for them for almost five months. But they also held prayer vigils. Then they get the outcome. The girls are dead. After this outcome, and if I were a believer, you’d never get me near a prayer service/vigil/mass again. This is the deluded nature of the whole charlatan business of prayer and religion. It is “slacktivism”. I prayed, therefore I tried to help. Yeah, fuck off, or in the beliver’s case, go to hell. Maybe you searched, maybe you hung flyers around town. Maybe you pleaded the media to continue the coverage on them. THAT would be help. Still, the worst, worst case happened. I am so sorry for the families and community for this to happen. I am REALLY hoping they find the killer, of course. As is everyone who prayed or didn’t. And fuck the death penalty for that SOB. Gen pop for them, or even better, solitary till they’re dead. Praying did absolutely nothing for them. And we can all find plenty of examples of where prayer/religion was the cause of a child’s death in the first place. What REALLY gets me is once these poor girls were positively identified, what happened? Oh, yeah. A PRAYER VIGIL. Nice. We heard about thanking the Lord (??) for taking them into his sweet arms. Yeah. Joshua 7. There’s sweet arms. Book of Job, Genesis, Judges, etc., etc… And I do understand that there is some solace in thinking they are “better off” or “blessed” or “being in a better place”. Problem is, those little girls are human, alive, no longer alive. And the prayers didn’t help them be safe at any point. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/136 "2012-12-08T13:14:53Z")
I just love all these people acting like they’ve never known somebody wanted something, but still waited until they were asked before they gave it. Prayer is for you, not God. It’s where you figure out what you want. It’s where you ask God so you can find out what he’s going to do. Stop with the strawmen. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189/137 "2012-12-08T13:26:47Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I just love all these people acting like they’ve never known somebody wanted something, but still waited until they were asked before they gave it. > > Prayer is for you, not God. It’s where you figure out what you want. **It’s where you ask God so you can find out what he’s going to do.** Stop with the strawmen. 😕 Translate please? Prayer is for the person praying. It’s for the person who feels helpless in a situation to find a measure of ‘doing something’ towards a better outcome. It’s a more directed form of wishing. And if it gives that person some comfort, well… if that’s really all they can offer then I suppose it’s better than not caring at all. I’m somewhere on the heathen/agnostic/atheist scale, but when I’m in a personal crisis of some sort even I find myself sending an undirected “please, please, please…” out to the ethers. Why? I don’t know. Can force of will with no other action make things happen? I don’t know that either, but I doubt it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idiots-who-pray/632189.md?page=6)