# Idle Speculation on Race and Racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660 "2015-03-10T01:36:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/81 "2015-03-10T22:50:53Z")
> [@theR](#): > > What are you trying to show here? > > You’ve shown that some cultures treat albinos with sympathy, for example Japan. But you’ve also shown that other cultures like Western literature portrays albinos as evil. Finally, you’ve shown some cultures treat albinos as animals from which body parts are valued as a prize or charm, similar to ivory or a rabbits foot. > > If anything, it seems to show culture is a big part of how people of different skin tones are treated, but I think it is largely irrelevant since albino people are such an exception to the norm in any culture. theR Sorry for my lack of clarity. Let me try again. In my first post I cited an example of a dark skinned society (Tanzania) putting a special, arguably higher, value on the lightest skinned members of that society (alibinos). Perhaps I should have added the area has one of the highest incidences of albinism in the world. One albino every 1429 births according to Wikipedia so unusual but not especially so. My second post was unnecessarily confusing. I discovered - while searching for further data on albinos - a reference (cited in that post) which stated, I paraphrase here, that Japanese society, in general, considers a paler skin the ideal. To clarify that has nothing to do with albinism other than it was mentioned in an article about albinos. So sorry again for the confusion. But I was trying to provide two instances of very different cultures putting a higher value on lighter skins. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/82 "2015-03-10T22:57:05Z")
It should be noted, though, that albinism is often not seen as a natural or ideal light skin color by many people. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/83 "2015-03-10T23:16:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It should be noted, though, that albinism is often not seen as a natural or ideal light skin color by many people. Quite agree. The Wikipedia page I scanned noted in Western Society the standard trope is the “Evil Albino” - very much a negative. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/84 "2015-03-11T01:59:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It should be noted, though, that albinism is often not seen as a natural or ideal light skin color by many people. Yeah, whenever I hear the word, I automatically think of the albino from _Foul Play._ ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/85 "2015-03-11T04:07:20Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I think from an evolutionary standpoint, the question is: Is there an adaptive advantage to lighter skin? If there is, it would stand to reason that humans who prefer light skin have an advantage, and that trait has been bred into the population This really isn’t the question. If lighter and darker skin did trigger an instinctual response in humanity, it could have evolved purely as coincidence; for instance, it might be a survival trait to avoid plants or animals that share a shade with certain African races. Alternately, it could be simple sexual selection–if, say, early dominant male hominids hogged all the shade, and so were the only ones without a tan. Of course, the evidence in this thread has pretty well convinced me that my speculation was misguided. Still, I feel better for having asked. As Edison (supposedly) said, “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/86 "2015-03-11T04:36:04Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I think from an evolutionary standpoint, the question is: Is there an adaptive advantage to lighter skin? . . . It might not be that simple. For instance, light skinned Europeans are also more likely to retain lactose tolerance into adulthood, offering them the cultural advantage of storing food energy in the form of cheese, very useful on expeditions of military conquest. The advantage of lactose tolerance might merely be associated with pale skin, which, in itself, is actually a disadvantage, as it leaves the possessor more susceptible to sunburn and skin cancer. Not all traits are directly advantageous or disadvantageous, but may be part of a “bundle” of traits which, overall, bring an advantage. The case of sickle-cell disease is a famous example. The gene is advantageous in regions where malaria exposure is highly likely, but disadvantageous outside of those regions. The sickle-cell gene is associated with dark-skinned people, but isn’t meaningfully linked to it in any direct “cause and effect” having to do with overall survival. The sickle-cell gene could just as easily have been associated with some other reproductively isolated group of people, e.g. native central Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/87 "2015-03-11T08:57:51Z")
> [@TCMF-2L](#): > > theR > > Sorry for my lack of clarity. Let me try again. > > In my first post I cited an example of a dark skinned society (Tanzania) putting a special, arguably higher, value on the lightest skinned members of that society (alibinos). … Higher value?? The east african attitude revolves around a witchcraft belief and the murder of the albinos, it does not value them! They are seen as both a danger and a source of magic. this is the opposite of the idea of giving a higher status as humans. ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660/88 "2015-03-11T12:10:04Z")
Ramira I said Tanzanian Witches put a “special, arguably higher, value on albinos” which I stand by and have provided cites for. Indeed you state albinos are seen as a potential source of powerful magic. So it seems we agree they have special status and value derived from that status. “Higher status as a human” is a trickier concept in this context. On the one hand (no pun intended), that the society (or at least those in the society who believe in magic) want to dismember albinos for their body parts is not especially beneficial to the albinos. It treats them as a commodity source to be subjected to fear, pain, torture, mutilation and death. However most societies have at some point practiced human sacrifice and history (including here myths and legends) records many example of kings and powerful figures sacrificing sons and daughters to appease Gods or invading warriors. Also, societies that sacrificed regularly often sought “high status” victims from an enemy’s population to sacrifice. The sacrifice specifically being chosen because the victim is highly valued therefore making it a more potent sacrifice. There are cites from the bible and Aztec mythology I can provide if required. It remains a fact sacrificing someone (or a class of individual) can in a twisted way be affording them a higher status. TCMF-2L [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-speculation-on-race-and-racism/714660.md?page=4)