# Idle Thoughts, can you or someone else unlock and move my Starving Artist thread to the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613 "2012-10-03T19:25:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/1 "2012-10-03T19:25:57Z")
I started a thread in IMHO about an hour ago with a poll titled [Do you agree with Starving Artist in the Joe Paterno Pit thread?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=667530) \*\*Idle Thoughts \*\*closed it down, saying: > [@](#): > > I’m going to close this and here’s why: Because if you (or anyone else) has a beef with Starving Artist, you are free to pit him. This sort of topic has too much potential to turn into a pile on…in fact, I’d even consider it a subtle form of piling on already. > If you wish to remake this topic in the Pit, feel free. You don’t need to have a poll to get your answer. I understand there was the potential for it to become a pile on. I’d argue that the only reason it would become a pile on, subtle or not, is if the results were so lopsided Starving Artist would have no choice but to acknowledge that he had no support for his position. But the only way to determine that was to create the poll in the first place and see what happens. I didn’t consider it a foregone conclusion. For my part, I tried to keep the tone civil and hoped others would do the same. I don’t wish to remake the topic in the Pit. This was NOT a pitting of SA. Quite honestly, I’m having too much fun poking him in the Pit thread as it is that I felt no need to continue it elsewhere. What I wanted was a poll. But a poll isn’t available in the BBQ Pit for one reason or another. So I was left with no option but to create it in IMHO where I can appreciate it doesn’t really belong. So I’d ask the thread be unlocked and moved to the Pit, where the responses can continue to be gathered. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/2 "2012-10-03T19:35:25Z")
They’re going to say no, because polls can’t be started in the Pit. If that’s the case, can we use this thread as a discussion on WHY polls can’t be started in the Pit? I can’t at the moment think of any potential abuses of the polling function that would happen in the Pit. Are we worried about protecting the sanctity or integrity of the poll? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/3 "2012-10-03T19:36:59Z")
You can just as easily start a new thread in the Pit if you wish to ask people about it. I understand you saying you were not pitting Starving Artist, but regardless of your intent, the thread had the great potential to become and was even starting to become just another topic to pile on a poster others don’t agree with. I was heading that off at the pass. I’m not going to move the poll there, either. While there has been instances of polls being moved to forums where they aren’t on by default (Great Debates, for example), I don’t think the BBQ Pit is the place for polls, especially concerning specific members of the board. If you’re okay with the poll being moved there and it being a Pit thread anyway, there should have no problem making another thread there about it if you really are curious to get other opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/4 "2012-10-03T19:42:37Z")
The point of the poll is that it is anonymous; Starving Artist is contending in the 20,000-post pit thread that his supporters are cowed by the invective that has been deployed against him. An anonymous poll allows the lurkers who support him in email to show their support. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/5 "2012-10-03T19:44:43Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I don’t think the BBQ Pit is the place for polls, especially concerning specific members of the board. Can you expand on this? I really am curious as to why. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/6 "2012-10-03T19:48:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The point of the poll is that it is anonymous; Starving Artist is contending in the 20,000-post pit thread that his supporters are cowed by the invective that has been deployed against him. An anonymous poll allows the lurkers who support him in email to show their support. But weren’t posters voting, then commenting on how they voted? Not too anonymous to me. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/7 "2012-10-03T19:54:42Z")
How about setting up an outside poll on a free site that does that sort of thing and linking to it in a Pit thread? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/8 "2012-10-03T19:55:53Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > I’m not going to move the poll there, either. While there has been instances of polls being moved to forums where they aren’t on by default (Great Debates, for example), I don’t think the BBQ Pit is the place for polls, especially concerning specific members of the board. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > But weren’t posters voting, then commenting on how they voted? Not too anonymous to me. Wait… It’s OK to “pile on” an active member in the pit, right? Even non-anonymously. Why does it being a poll make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/9 "2012-10-03T19:57:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But weren’t posters voting, then commenting on how they voted? Not too anonymous to me. This post is purposefully obtuse. People can either be anonymous or not. Not everybody that votes has to post, and vice versa. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/10 "2012-10-03T19:58:49Z")
I agree with Idle Thoughts that the thread was not appropriate for IMHO, but I think it demonstrates the clear value of simply enabling polls board-wide. If someone makes a ludicrous contention in the Pit (e.g. “a bunch of people actually agree with me, they just won’t post because people are so mean!”), there’s no reason someone shouldn’t be able to start a poll to quantitatively disprove it. What is the harm? Similarly, why not let people vote on favorite movies in Cafe Society or different proposals/viewpoints in GD? It’s just an added little bit of info at the top of the thread that can sometimes make for a more interesting thread than everyone just posting and leaving it to the reader to add up the responses and gauge the consensus viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/11 "2012-10-03T20:00:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But weren’t posters voting, then commenting on how they voted? Not too anonymous to me. There were 28 votes and about 8 comments by people regarding their own votes. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/12 "2012-10-03T20:00:38Z")
The Pit thread is only 100 pages long. Of course we need another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/13 "2012-10-03T20:01:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But weren’t posters voting, then commenting on how they voted? Not too anonymous to me. The point of the poll was that it removed the hypothesized condition that prevented supporters from voicing their support, namely the condemnation of others. Scientists often refer to this sort of activity as an “experiment” which they use to test “hypotheses”. Here is an [informative link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) if you’d like to read more about it. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/14 "2012-10-03T20:03:36Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Can you expand on this? I really am curious as to why. If someone has a beef with someone else on the boards, they can just make a topic in the pit just as has always been done. This saves having 5-10 polls about specific members that would most likely be nothing more then things like “Do you like this poster—yes, no, maybe”, “Is this poster a jackass?”, “Do you think this poster should feltch a dead goat?”. Why would a poll be needed in the first place if someone was pitting someone else (another member of the boards)? Just to add more insults? A regular topic works just as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/15 "2012-10-03T20:05:01Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > There were 28 votes and about 8 comments by people regarding their own votes. You may be right..but the thread was closed pretty early and we have no way of knowing who would have eventually commented. Could have gone either way, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/16 "2012-10-03T20:05:50Z")
But it’s needed in this case because you need to see if there are any anonymous members who are not prepared to speak out, but are prepared to tick the box in the anonymous poll. Anyway I see no reason polling cannot be enabled and then disabled if it doesn’t work. But I suppose this is vbulletin 3.7.3… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/17 "2012-10-03T20:07:46Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > The point of the poll was that it removed the hypothesized condition that prevented supporters from voicing their support, namely the condemnation of others. Scientists often refer to this sort of activity as an “experiment” which they use to test “hypotheses”. Here is an [informative link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) if you’d like to read more about it. Are there any studies about the value of polls where those voting could see the comments of previous voters beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/18 "2012-10-03T20:08:54Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > If someone has a beef with someone else on the boards, they can just make a topic in the pit just as has always been done. This saves having 5-10 polls about specific members that would most likely be nothing more then things like “Do you like this poster—yes, no, maybe”, “Is this poster a jackass?”, “Do you think this poster should feltch a dead goat?”. > > Why would a poll be needed in the first place if someone was pitting someone else (another member of the boards)? Just to add more insults? A regular topic works just as well. So if I started a (non-poll) pit thread on **Bricker** with a single sentence “I think **Bricker** is a doody-head!” and nothing else, would it be closed as insufficient in proof? Weak pittings get mocked. The system seems to regulate itself… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/19 "2012-10-03T20:20:31Z")
I agree the topic was not appropriate for IMHO. **Starving Artist** ’s opinions and behavior in the Pit thread have been brought up in plenty of unrelated threads as it is, and based on what happens in those threads it’s reasonable to conclude the IMHO thread would’ve been a Pitting in disguise. If for some reason _another_ Pitting is necessary, the right thing is to start one and leave the poll out of it. I didn’t see **Starving Artist** ’s actual claim about people agreeing with him but remaining silent (if he did put it in those words), but I don’t think claims like that are ever taken seriously here. They’re bluster and they are usually recognized as such immediately. A poll was not needed to confirm that anyway and I don’t think the OP really expected such. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613/20 "2012-10-03T20:30:16Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I agree with Idle Thoughts that the thread was not appropriate for IMHO, but I think it demonstrates the clear value of simply enabling polls board-wide. If someone makes a ludicrous contention in the Pit (e.g. “a bunch of people actually agree with me, they just won’t post because people are so mean!”), there’s no reason someone shouldn’t be able to start a poll to quantitatively disprove it. What is the harm? Similarly, why not let people vote on favorite movies in Cafe Society or different proposals/viewpoints in GD? It’s just an added little bit of info at the top of the thread that can sometimes make for a more interesting thread than everyone just posting and leaving it to the reader to add up the responses and gauge the consensus viewpoint. Even though I think it is ridiculous to have another thread to beat the dead horse with paper towel tubes, I see no reason why polls shouldn’t be allowed board-wide. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idle-thoughts-can-you-or-someone-else-unlock-and-move-my-starving-artist-thread-to-the-pit/636613.md?page=2)