# Idol finale **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728 "2009-05-17T06:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/221 "2009-05-21T14:52:53Z")
I didn’t care who won, between Kris and Adam. I think they’ll both to well. I was impressed by Cyndi Lauper. She looked good and sounded great. Unlike Rod Stewart, who looked old and sounded croaky. My favorite song was the Steve Martin one. I may buy the album. I’ve always had a soft spot for bluegrass. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/222 "2009-05-21T14:53:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I think the “Broadway” label is a misreading of Adam as well. He’s at his absolute best with a theatrical rock style, not with real theater. He sounded outstanding with Queen tonight. He could absolutely nail a glam rock sound and really work the act on stage. He’s in the David Bowie/Freddie Mercury mold, not the Clay Aiken mold. I’d say his best song was Mad World. I was amazed the first time he did it, last night the feeling held the same. I think that there was only one performance of his that I didn’t like (more on that later), whereas there was only one performance of Kris’s that I did like, and I can’t even remember what it was. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > ETA, he needs a good sonwriter, though, not fucking Kara. The one good thing about his loss is he doesn’t have to record that coronation song abortion. EXACTLY. I could not STAND that song. It was the only one that I really didn’t think Adam did well and I’m quite sure that wasn’t Adam’s fault as Kris didn’t amaze me either. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/223 "2009-05-21T14:56:01Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I didn’t care who won, between Kris and Adam. I think they’ll both to well. > > I was impressed by Cyndi Lauper. She looked good and sounded great. Unlike Rod Stewart, who looked old and sounded croaky. My favorite song was the Steve Martin one. I may buy the album. I’ve always had a soft spot for bluegrass. Yeah, I got the impression from Rod Stewart that he was close to death. It reminded me (unfortunately) of Bob Dylan who sang on the show a few years ago (I think). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/224 "2009-05-21T14:58:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Let’s just say it’s all the douchebags on the Christian sites and fan sites gushing about how important it is that Gokey and Kris are Christians, and how it’s God’s will for them to beat the godless fag Jew. Alternatively… Maybe, just maybe, it had nothing to do with religion or sexual orientation. Maybe it was: people like Kris more. People think that Adam has an amazing voice, but no clue how to control it, and got tired of every song having a caterwauling section that only dogs can hear. Maybe people think he’s a glam rock poseur, and Kris is genuinely talented and unaffected. Maybe there was a backlash against the “inevitability” of Adam, and how he could do no wrong (at least since his unfortunate rendition of Ring of Kashmir). Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/225 "2009-05-21T14:59:09Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I haven’t read the rest of the thread, but are you sure this is what happened? Well, I think enough people voted that way to make the difference. I’m sure a good percentage of Kris’ vote came from brainless tweens and teeny boppers, and people who know nothing about music (which has always been the case with this show – they always go for safe and bland obver anything the least bit musically interesting), but I think there were enough agenda voters to put Kris over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/226 "2009-05-21T15:04:55Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > People think that Adam has an amazing voice, but no clue how to control it He has incredible control. If they think think he has no control then they’re ignorant as stumps. > [@](#): > > Maybe people think he’s a glam rock poseur, What’s wrong with that? “Glam rock poseur” is redundant, by the way. All glam rock is a pose. That’s the point. > [@](#): > > and Kris is genuinely talented and unaffected. He’s not that talented, though, that’s my main objection. He’s very, very average. If he was any more talented than the guys I can hear playing in the sandwich shop at Rosedale Mall, it wouldn’t bother me that much. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/227 "2009-05-21T15:14:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He has incredible control. If they think think he has no control then they’re ignorant as stumps. Point taken. Then, he has a great voice, great control, and bad judgment about what to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/228 "2009-05-21T15:21:16Z")
I had no idea Adam was gay. As for Paul McCartney, I certainly do not mean to diss the man. He is a great _natural_ musician in the sense of any other prodigy in the field. But as one concert level pianist once told me, it is quite easy to spot the untrained players — which doesn’t mean they’re not good. At the time she was telling me about all this, we were watching an old man beat out some blues on a baby grand in a Holiday Inn lobby rather late at night. Wonderful. But definitely not classically trained. McCartney, like the old black man, plays “by ear”. Many of these things show up in McCartney’s play. Example (1) all chording is done with the right hand, while the bass is played with either one finger or the pinky and thumb on octaves. Example (2) Bass lines are never arpeggio except in very slow songs, where the left hand can stay relaxed. Example (3) Bass lines in uptempo songs are played very primatively — an OOM-pa-pa OOM-pa-pa rhythm at best. Example (4) In blues-based songs, like boogie woogies, the bass never varies — it is always I, III, V, VI, VII(flat), VI, V, III in every measure. Example (5) When the bass line is “chorded”, it is a fixed I, V two-note chord, and the hand moves along while the fingers stay absolutely stuck in one position so that they come down on the notes the same way. Example (6) Inversions are seldom used, and when they are, they are treated as bridges that make it easier to move back and forth among other chords. These are a few that I recall off the top of my head. What McCartney is good at is hearing in his head how much better a major VII would sound than a straight major chord. Or how much better a III bass would sound than a tonic bass in a particular measure. It is his orchestral collaborator who translates McCartney’s vision into a sophisticated orchestral score that is then mutilated and sold as “sheet music”. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/229 "2009-05-21T15:26:24Z")
Anyone else read this comment on [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/21/american.idol.scenes/index.html) from the always humble and charming Gene Simmons? > [@](#): > > KISS co-founder Gene Simmons was asked whether Lambert would be invited to join the band on the road this fall. “No,” said Simmons. “He’d be better off joining Queen.” Compliment or insult? Or both? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/230 "2009-05-21T15:30:38Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > Compliment or insult? Or both? I’s say “neither” – I read it as a simple statement of fact. KISS has no need for a frontman, whereas Queen does. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/231 "2009-05-21T15:38:27Z")
> [@Winston\_Bongo](#): > > Anyone else read this comment on [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/05/21/american.idol.scenes/index.html) from the always humble and charming Gene Simmons? > > Compliment or insult? Or both? I don’t know if there’s any diss intended, but practically speaking, Simmons is right. Queen is a better fit both musically and in terms of need. Kiss already has two singers (both of whom Lambert outsang last night), they don’t really have a need or a spot for him. I don’t know that touring with Queen would really be the right decision for him. He sounded good with them, but they’re a retro act at this point. I think a band like Queen would be a good template for him, though. It’s the _kind_ of band he should be in. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/232 "2009-05-21T15:56:44Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He has incredible control. If they think think he has no control then they’re ignorant as stumps. > > What’s wrong with that? “Glam rock poseur” is redundant, by the way. All glam rock is a pose. That’s the point. > > He’s not that talented, though, that’s my main objection. He’s very, very average. If he was any more talented than the guys I can hear playing in the sandwich shop at Rosedale Mall, it wouldn’t bother me that much. You may want to try to wrap your mind around the idea that a whole lot of people have listened to and watched exactly what you have and think that Kris is way above average at what he does. Many of these people know plenty about music, although that doesn’t make their opinions more important than yours or mine. Millions do not have to be stupid or ignorant or fundies to have preferred a different singer than you did. Can you grasp that? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/233 "2009-05-21T15:57:58Z")
I want to see Adam, Kris, and David Cook touring together. THAT I’d buy tickets for. And, once again, David Cook owned the AI stage last night. I just love that guy. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/234 "2009-05-21T16:07:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He has incredible control. He can have all the control he wants, but when it’s in the high registers, his voice is annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/235 "2009-05-21T16:19:49Z")
I’m a David Cook convert. I’m almost ashamed, in fact, that I dug in my heels for Archuletta last season. Cook is a wonderful singer, and has a commanding stage presence. So… sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![BigBertha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BigBertha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigBertha)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/236 "2009-05-21T16:23:02Z")
Tis okay. Last year, everyone was, ah this is boring. Then, suddenly, magic happened. David Cook magic. There really wasn’t that magic this year. Ya know? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/237 "2009-05-21T16:36:03Z")
I loved seeing David Cook. He touched my heart last year as no AI ever has, there is something so sweet about him., and yeah, I love his voice, too. … I guess my demographic puts me in “soccer mom” territory, but I was for Adam all the way. I may LOOK like a middle aged frumpy lump, but Queen, David Bowie, and Kiss RULE in my house. Even Mr. S, straight-laced macho man, fell in love with Adam when he sang “Mad World”. But deep down, long ago, I didn’t think he was going to win. So I wasn’t all that surprised when he didn’t. Adam-good luck, honey, I’ll be out there as your Biggest Fan Ever. (…goes off to pin Adam’s EW cover up on the wall in the laundry room…) ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/238 "2009-05-21T16:56:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well, I think enough people voted that way to make the difference. I’m sure a good percentage of Kris’ vote came from brainless tweens and teeny boppers, and people who know nothing about music (which has always been the case with this show – they always go for safe and bland obver anything the least bit musically interesting), but I think there were enough agenda voters to put Kris over the top. I know this isn’t Great Debates, but could you provide some kind of factual support for any of this? Of course you can’t. The fact is you have no idea why Kris won and Adam lost. For all anyone knows, the voting could have been a statistical dead heat, so close that on any given day, either one of them might have won. In fact, [this](http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/05/20/tech-struggles-to-predict-american-idol-winner/), and an article linked to there, does say that the race was too close to call. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/239 "2009-05-21T17:08:40Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Considering the fact that Freddy Mercury was probably the greatest frontman in rock history, I still think Adam did a damn fine job. Ahem. AHEM… A-Frikkin-HEM… I would like to introduce you to Mr. Plant and Mr. Jagger. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728/240 "2009-05-21T17:18:36Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > For all anyone knows, the voting could have been a statistical dead heat, so close that on any given day, either one of them might have won. In fact, [this](http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/05/20/tech-struggles-to-predict-american-idol-winner/), and an article linked to there, does say that the race was too close to call. Dialidol only polls phone calls, not texts. I doubt it was a dead heat. Thirty-eight million text votes came out of Arkansas; there were about one hundred million votes cast total. If Arkansas was 75 percent in support of Kris (which I think is conservative) and the non-Arkansas vote was split evenly down the middle, it would be about a 65 / 35 split overall. I have no backup for this opinion, but I think Arkansas turned out for Kris because he was their boy and they were proud of him. I don’t suspect the entire state of nefarious motives. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/idol-finale/496728.md?page=13)