# If 9/11 happened in Western Europe, would the name be the same? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802 "2017-05-16T23:58:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![femmejean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/0ea827/32.png) [@femmejean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/femmejean)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/1 "2017-05-16T23:58:10Z")
If the attacks occurred on Sept 11 2011 but instead of the US, on cities across Western Europe, would they be known as 11/9 due to the reverse in the date? Seems that they wouldn’t do that purely because of the phonetic ease. Perhaps the ‘Sept 11 attacks’ would have been used. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/2 "2017-05-17T00:06:18Z")
I don’t see much difference in phonetic ease between the two. If anything, “eleven-nine” is a touch easier, because there’s that N in the middle you can elide. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/3 "2017-05-17T00:12:42Z")
Depends on which countrie(s) got hit. I bet the Germans, French, Brits, or whoever each have typical ways they choose to name Big Events. And each of those ways is different. Per wiki, the Spanish refer to [2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings) as “11-M”. The 11 is the day, but whether the M means Madrid or Marzo I can’t say. For darn sure the countries other than the UK will not be picking their label based on how easily it trips off the tongue after being translated into in English. The fact the US chose to name it a number instead of “The Al Qaeda attacks” or “The WTC attacks” seems to me to have been a deliberate bit of propaganda. Which steered the public towards thinking of this as an existential emergency when it was nothing of the sort. We mostly call, and called back then, the Japanese attack as “Pearl Harbor”, not as “December 7th”, and certainly never as “12/07”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/4 "2017-05-17T00:49:33Z")
In London, England we had the [7 July 2005 bombings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings). Sometimes called 7/7, but that was following the pattern of 9/11. Without 9/11 they would not have been called that at all. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/5 "2017-05-17T01:06:50Z")
Yeah, I haven’t really seen the date thing used for any other tragedy, even in America. Nobody calls the OKC bombing “Four Nineteen” or Sandy Hook “Twelve Fourteen”. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/6 "2017-05-17T01:20:11Z")
9/11 also stands out because it is similar to 911, the U.S. emergency number. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/7 "2017-05-17T06:27:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Depends on which countrie(s) got hit. > > I bet the Germans, French, Brits, or whoever each have typical ways they choose to name Big Events. And each of those ways is different. > > Per wiki, the Spanish refer to [2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings) as “11-M”. The 11 is the day, but whether the M means Madrid or Marzo I can’t say. > > For darn sure the countries other than the UK will not be picking their label based on how easily it trips off the tongue after being translated into in English. > The fact the US chose to name it a number instead of “The Al Qaeda attacks” or “The WTC attacks” seems to me to have been a deliberate bit of propaganda. Which steered the public towards thinking of this as an existential emergency when it was nothing of the sort. > > We mostly call, and called back then, the Japanese attack as “Pearl Harbor”, not as “December 7th”, and certainly never as “12/07”. I think it was called 9/11 because it was multiple different attacks on multiple locations and thus can’t just be called “New York Terror Attacks” or “The Airplane Hijacking Incidents”. And people did call Pearl Harbor “December 7th” pretty frequently, you’ll find propaganda posters and first-hand accounts during that era where people would just refer to it by it’s date. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/8 "2017-05-17T07:14:29Z")
In the UK, pre-9/11, 911 had no significance as our emergency number is 999. Also, our date format is normally done by day/month/year so that construction doesn’t fit anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CeleTheRef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@CeleTheRef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CeleTheRef)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/9 "2017-05-17T07:46:53Z")
In Italy we’d probably name an attack after the place it happens. We don’t like numbers very much. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/10 "2017-05-17T08:02:19Z")
When the UK lost billions of pounds through currency problems we called it ‘Black Wednesday’ ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/11 "2017-05-17T08:17:24Z")
The US is the only place in the world, so far as I’m aware, that does the date backwards like that. Everywhere else would either call that date **11/9** or **11 SEP** or **the eleventh of September** - or would use whatever dating system is current in their own culture. ETA: My point, if it was unclear, is that it wouldn’t occur to anyone except Americans to call it 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/12 "2017-05-17T08:37:41Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The US is the only place in the world, so far as I’m aware, that does the date backwards like that. Everywhere else would either call that date **11/9** or **11 SEP** or **the eleventh of September** - or would use whatever dating system is current in their own culture. > > ETA: My point, if it was unclear, is that it wouldn’t occur to anyone except Americans to call it 9/11. > [@femmejean](#): > > If the attacks occurred on Sept 11 2011 but instead of the US, on cities across Western Europe, would they be known as 11/9 due to the reverse in the date? > . If the attacks had actually occurred on Sept 11 2011 then 9 /11 would make sense to people: The September '11 attacks. Would that term have been used? Probably not. I have to say that the Pentagon and Pennsylvania fatalities had much lower visibility in Aus. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/13 "2017-05-17T08:45:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > If the attacks had actually occurred on Sept 11 2011 then 9 /11 would make sense to people: The September '11 attacks. Would that term have been used? Probably not. I have to say that the Pentagon and Pennsylvania fatalities had much lower visibility in Aus. I don’t think 9/11 would have been used to signify September 2011. While logically explicable, that’s just not a common usage for identifying a month and year. Outside the US, from my recollection they were quite often referred to as the World Trade Centre attacks or the WTC attacks. Yes, I know they weren’t _just_ directed at the WTC, and everybody knew that at the time, but it’s the images of those attacks that everyone remembers, and that were endless repeated in the days and weeks following the attacks. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/14 "2017-05-17T09:15:35Z")
In the UK, we’d sometimes refer to the day of the week as noted above (see “Bloody Sunday”) or the place (e.g., “Hungerford” or “Dunblane” mean much the same to us as “Sandy Hook” does in the US). Similarly in France, perhaps, where “Charlie Hebdo” and “Bataclan” are useful shorthand (or if you go back further “Vél d’Hiv”); but then, on the Continent they name streets and squares after significant historical/political dates, in ways we wouldn’t. But what governs how reporters choose to give a particular event a shorthand title, where other events aren’t so remembered? Numbers of victims? The shock of incongruity where terrible things happen in a quiet place or in some other banal circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/15 "2017-05-17T09:16:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Per wiki, the Spanish refer to [2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings) as “11-M”. The 11 is the day, but whether the M means Madrid or Marzo I can’t say. Marzo, and if it hadn’t take place 2 days before 13-M we’d probably have a different name for it, and in fact we do: _el atentado de Atocha_ (Atocha being Madrid’s main train station, where three of the bombs exploded). That’s what we usually call terrorist attacks, by the place or people attacked. We talk about _el atentado de Hipercor_ (or _ataque_, or _asesinatos_: it’s one of those cases where choice of word tells you someone’s politics, as “attempt” is considered more neutral than “attack” or “murder”), _el atentado de la T4, el atentado de Lockerbie…_ 13-M, and because of it 11-M, are in the format in which we usually give election dates. The bombings took place two days before the election in which Zapatero became president. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/16 "2017-05-17T10:54:42Z")
The ISO version of the date is 2001-09-11 and I assume that is the way it would be done in the EU and it would certainly be plausible to shorten that to 9-11. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/17 "2017-05-17T11:16:44Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The ISO version of the date is 2001-09-11 and I assume that is the way it would be done in the EU and it would certainly be plausible to shorten that to 9-11. No, that’s used by very few people. I’ve worked in more than half of EU countries and the only place where people routinely used 20010911 (no dashes) was Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/18 "2017-05-17T12:25:13Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The ISO version of the date is 2001-09-11 and I assume that is the way it would be done in the EU and it would certainly be plausible to shorten that to 9-11. In the UK pretty much no-one uses the ISO version of the date. It would be guaranteed to confuse (and working between USA and European arms of major companies it is a constant source of errors). Here it is always either 17th May 2017 or 17/05/17 ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/19 "2017-05-17T13:45:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > No, that’s used by very few people. I’ve worked in more than half of EU countries and the only place where people routinely used 20010911 (no dashes) was Sweden. I thought Japan uses YYYY-MM-DD as standard. Hardly “very few people”. Hearing the “nth of Month” today sounds like a throwback to speech of the 18th century. I am curious as to when our current usage became widespread here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802/20 "2017-05-17T13:50:20Z")
“All of Japan” is “very few people” relative to the rest of the world. In any case, Nava was talking about the EU, which at the time of writing does not include Japan. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-9-11-happened-in-western-europe-would-the-name-be-the-same/786802.md?page=2)